Here's my 5000ft summary for what it's worth. Others may believe they are more right, and they well may be. But, this is what my experience leads me to believe. The Bacterial Infection starts externally, if the dog has a high yeast level the folical infection spreads and deepens further. If the dog has a fragile immune system the infection is harder to be rid of. So, if your dog gets outdoors and attracts more than it's fair dose of bacteria, especially at this time of year, and you DON'T regularly use a medicated shampoo, it takes hold... In fact I believe that regular soaps further feed the bacteria especially seeing as it often doesn't wash out of a thick coat easily. Both my dogs now have 97% perfect coats, Isabella needed antibiotic assistance, Marco did not. Their yeast level is way down... cutting out extra protein and ALL sugars, even natural ones in sweet potato where ever possible, Nuvet to help their immune system, and Probiotics to help their digestion and keep them regular. Although it's worked great for me, others might need a different "mix" of solutions and remedies because undoubtedly each dog is different, and each environment/ initial cause/ bacteria type is different.
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
@philsergeant The Etiderm is wonderful. Thank you for the recommendation. We've used it once, a couple of days ago, and his coat is still nice and white and the bumps do seem to have calmed down a bit. I wouldn't have any qualms about bathing him daily with Etiderm since it seems beneficial and soothing, but I'm physically unable to bathe him by myself. The NuVet seems to agree with Rodney, and we will be continuing with that. Combined with the antihistamines, Etiderm and NuVet seem to be helping him noticeably. Once the weather cools down, it will be interesting to see if his coat returns normal.
@exiled Keeping fingers crossed for the bump issues to disappear soon.
For some reason I expected the flea and heartworm prevention to repel insects. But obviously the meds kill parasites INSIDE the dog. So seeing mosquitoes circling the dog is not necessarily an alarm signal. There are so many discussions going on about heartworm just a moneymaking myth for the pharmaceutical industry or real menace. At this point I just don't want to risk it. We're on the same page here.
Never tried those mosquito dunks though. Will do! thanks for the tip! Great idea for our porch. I have the same problem of just being too attractive to mosquitoes. We also like the mosquito candles for outside. They really seem to work.
@philsergeant So, your Bullies are free of bumps again? Which probiotic are you feeding? Do you use powder, tablets or just yoghurt? How exactly did you manage to cut out ALL of the sugars? Which diet do you feed to your dogs? I know, I'm SO nosy
I'm pleased to say that the kids are back to having virtually perfect coats..... (I need to start focusing on the dry "elbows" issue... that is going to be a tough one).... But, per eg. here's a photo of Issa taken this evening.... in the spot that her Mummy bans her from going,... the LIVING ROOM.. well even I'm not allowed in there unless I've had a shower..... As far as their diet goes, this is exactly what they get...... (Their Kibble is 50% Orijien GF Puppy... good stuff it has: Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chicken liver oil, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fibre, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*.... Can't ask for more, yum yum!~~~ & 50% Pure Vita ,which they are loving (Bison for Marco, Turkey for Issa)... it has sweet potato and peas but hopefully not too much SP. In the morning they get Kibble and Greek low fat, low sugar yoghurt, that's it..... At night (we ditched the cooked chicken and replaced it) with canned peas, beans, pinto beans etc. Plus raw [beef, turkey, chicken or duck (one of these)] and kibble and probiotics powder sprinkle and salmon oil... big bowl and they demolish it all..... Nothing else besides water and turkey bacon treats. The probiotics is from Mercola (interesting website).. photo attached. I don't think you can cut all their sugars, but I think the kibble they were on before (Victor GF) had a LOT of sweet potato.. could be wrong.
I am looking into everything, at least take a glimpse. So your list was very interesting. But sometimes I need a break. There’s so much controversy surfacing.
I am sure I will be going to adjust Djamila’s diet in the hope of freeing her entirely from the yeasty spots. I am happy she is doing well though.
I recently dug a little deeper into the entire probiotics thing.
I stumbled over some information that many of them contain strains that are actually not considered too beneficial when it comes to prevention of yeast overgrowth. This discussion is about the so called prebiotics or FOS (Fructooligosaccharides).
It is assumed that they have the potential of not only feeding the good but also bad microorganisms in the gut. This seems to be something highly individual in humans as well as in animals. But as I am looking into yeast overgrowth problems, it’s something I find interesting.
Another thing are the starches used also in many high quality dog kibbles to supplement for grains. Tapicoa is the number one ingredient and seems to raise concerns.
But that only brings me back to a conclusive assumption, I have drawn already a while ago: Dogs don’t really need carbohydrates in their diet. It’s something humans have added for several reasons. So, if we want to avoid starch/sugar/carbohydrate-related problems, as I see it at the moment the best way to go seems to be feeding as little as possible of them.
That’s probably not an epiphany for many owners of sensitive dogs here. But I am still a little surprised, HOW WRONG I was about dog food in the past.
I did the same researches about healthy nutrition for humans some time ago. Well, that would go far beyond the scope of this discussion. But, in short: We’re basically sitting in the same boat with our pets, when it comes to modern nutrition. How - NOT - funny is that.
Anyway you guys enjoy your weekend and a maybe tasty steak - without asking for what the cow was being fed. Life is too short to only waste the time with worries.
No, there is sooooo much to contemplate, and so much differing (prejudicial & presumptive) information out there...so it's really fabulous that you are trying to make sense of it all... I'd be very interested the probiotic research... all I know is that, before we put them on the Mercola, they had very varied stools and could start off a runny very easily, now, since, they are so amazingly consistent it's comical, they are like a couple of cone servers down at Dairy Queen... (sorry we're out of vanilla)....every time, and you can set your watch too... so I believe their digestive systems are working very well. On the human side, we were talking last night about the fact that when we spent a lot of time in Italy (perhaps other places) the whole culture is so focused not only on the preparation & taste, but also the QUALITY, and GOODNESS of different foods and on totally proper food consumption. We don't begin to have a decent comprehension of that here in US. Too many of us eat total junk.
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
Yeah, many do. The sad thing is, some people don't even know that they are eating junk. The real nasty foods are the ones that did not extensively walk through the media for their high fat or sugar content, those are questionable for other reasons.
@Djammy nice coincidence because I was coming on here to report how well Rodney is doing with the things that we've been using. There's a few things sitting untried, but that's because I am giving some things a chance to work or at least know what isn't working. He's looking great. Honestly, the bumps are there, but none are open or raised *much*. Because his coat is thin for the summer, it's pretty easy to see his skin, freckles and bumps.
He was at the dog park last night, so we washed him with the Etiderm. That stuff has been great. He's white and clean, but not dried out. I think the ACV, Orijen kibble, along with the NuVet Plus and antihistamines are working. Bedding is cleaned in hot water every day. He got a dose of Trifexis a few days ago (it's a monthly tablet). I haven't been doing this every day, maybe once or twice a week, but using those Douxo pads to clean/disinfect between his toes. What looked like a furuncle revving up has pretty much gone away. I brush him every day. The bag balm on his dry/cracked elbows once a day is working, too. We put a dab of that on the tip of his nose every day, too. He gets lots of exercise every day.
All in all, he's looking "even" if that makes sense. His white fur has a sort of light, sheen to it. He's looking good. I don't think anyone would know there's any skin or allergy issues going on.
Could it be any of these or some combination, who knows. This is list of what I'm currently using daily or weekly. I'm sure some people will be convinced I'm doing something completely wrong, too much, or not enough, but this is working for Rodney. He wouldn't eat hardly at all. The vet has had great luck with dogs in our climate eating in the cooler part of the evening ONLY. I have to say, it worked instantly and has kept working like a charm during the summer. Not changing that until cooler weather, so no one should even attempt to try to convince me otherwise, lol. Orijen Red (2 cups once a day during summer, per vet) Grizzly Salmon Oil (2 pumps daily) Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar with "mother" (tsp daily) Canned organic pumpkin (big TBSP daily) NuVet Plus (twice a day, but switching to once a day next week) Antihistamine (twice a day) Douxo pads (once or twice a week) Bag Balm (daily) Etiderm shampoo (once or twice a week) CET toothpaste and toothbrush (thorough cleaning, weekly at a minimum) Nolvasan Otic (for cleaning his ears, weekly at a minimum)
I'm convinced this will be a fluid situation. As the weather changes, and as his immunity system has its ups and downs, No doubt, he'll need a kibble change if he starts to tire of his current diet, but I'm convinced the Orijen is an excellent food and will try to stick with it. The pumpkin is awesome. I'm sure the skin will flare up at some point. I have the Vetericyn Hydro Gel that I haven't used at all yet. The Douxo pads are usually used daily, but those are just a sort of maintenance thing at the moment to clean up his "webs" between his toes. He's looking great. I look at him, and I'm honestly, stunned and awestruck at how gorgeous he is.
I hope this hasn't come across as obnoxious. The reason for this post is because there's hope for a right combination of food/skin care for BTs, but it has to be for that individual dog's system. I'm locking in on Rodney's, and it is suddenly glaring HOW MUCH BETTER he looks in a couple of weeks. Surely, some of the things were working prior to the past two weeks, but everything is catching up. Now, the wait is to see if it keeps working, or if I've introduced something that will start to show itself gradually. Fingers crossed.
Sorry for the long explanation, but this thread has been so wonderful that I am using this space to document his progress.
Tell me how Djamilla is doing. Praying she's made a lot of progress, too!
@Exiled, I love that you have such great love and devotion to your dog ... It really is great to see someone who can commit themselves to a creature that is, in many ways, better than ourselves. I know that he absolutely understands how deeply you are committed to him and will bring you tons of joy for going that extra, extra yard. It's so nice to hear your compassion for him in your words here!
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
@philsergeant Thank you very, very much for your kind words. Thank you very much, too, for the recommendation of Etiderm (and other things you've suggested that were right on target). I came back to comment, and see that you edited your original comment some. That's too bad, it was really sweet and nice the first go-round, too. I had to wait to comment because it was late and I still had to take care of my bunny. Believe it or not, the care I give to Rodney is minor compared to the care required of my 12-year-old bunny. He's arthritic, incontinent, has seizures, a hernia, bad teeth, and has now gone completely blind from his seizures (it would become cloudier every time). I have him by my side when I'm home, including sleeping by my bed at night so that I'm with him if he has a seizure. I don't want him struggling or hurting himself, and while I know the time is near, I fear him dying alone. Plus, he falls asleep while he's drinking from his water bowl, so my sweetie needs me near. Friends and family think I've become a hermit, but I'm staying close to home for him. I won't go into everything I do for him, but in general terms, I mix up hay and nutrients in a slurry and give those to him, syringe-by-syringe, medicines for pain, and water by syringe, too...all throughout the day. I'm feeling pretty ragged and gutted today, in particular, because he had a seizure right before I was leaving to take him to get acupuncture. The pain meds aren't helping as much, so I've started massaging him throughout the day, and then bring him for acupuncture once a week.
I don't know why I'm giong into this here, but, I guess Rodney is going to be here for me, I know, to help me get through the inevitable loss of my precious love, Mont Blanc. Rodney's become a valuable part of my family. I wouldn't do any less for him than I'm doing. When he gets old, I'm hoping to be alive and able to take care of him the same I'm doing for Mont Blanc.
Well, this has no connection to yeast, lol. Thanks to everyone for being kind.
Yes, I liked the first version too, but felt some ( less in the groove) might misunderstand. I know it is terrible to say, but often losing a pet is a lot worse than losing a family member. It is really tough " watching them go" and struggling with their disabilities hoping to bear some of them ourselves. My daughter lost her 14 year old black lab about six months ago, and now is nursing her 15 year old mongrel ( that I found on the street 12 years ago ) through his last months. He can hardly stand, falls down all the time and can't get up... Is on tons of meds and they are afraid to go out and leave him in case they come home and find the worst... But they do bring out the best in us, I guess that's part of what they are for.
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
I feel so reminded of Fancy during her last year. Yes, it has nothing to do with yeast, but it’s about the love for animals. So, this is the perfect place for it, if you ask me!
I know how heartbreaking it is to take care of a suffering animal, trying to do everything and still not being able to completely end pain or suffering.
Besides all of her allergy issues and her dramatic womb infection at the age of four, Fancy later went through a lot of the typical symptoms of an aging dog with several longterm issues. Including seizures, vestibular syndrome, loss of hearing, stomach issues und eventually kidney failure. She took her last breath in the arms of my husband, whom she loved to pieces. In retrospect knowing that she could just fall asleep forever knowing he's there holding her, gives me a great deal of comfort. And I absolutely understand your desire to be there for your bunny.
I am absolutely convinced that they feel the love and they trust in you to take care of them until their last breath. This is what makes for a happy pet life, with or without diseases.
Happy to hear that Rodney is doing good.
His story more and more sounds like Djamila’s story regarding the bumps. I’d pronounce her “clean” meanwhile. Therefore I also have reduced the bathing to 1-2 times a month now. Only still use the Epsom Salt rinses after pool time every now and then, because she still gets the usual temporary rashes on her belly or pimple like bumps here and there, just like Bullies do. Also I continue with the ACV.
If Rodney’s bumps don’t show any signs of inflammation or breaking open and if everything continues like it went with Djamila, then you should probably already be over the worst of it.
I have also taken Djamila OFF her powder probiotic, because I discovered that it contains the controversially discussed prebiotics (FOS). She was on Probiotic Miracle. It actually is advertised to PREVENT yeast overgrowth, but at the moment I am a little bit confused about the product. I’ll keep an eye on it for the next few weeks and see, if it’s better to skip it completely or put her back on it. Currently she’s only getting unsweetened yoghurt instead.
Will keep you posted, IF there are any new results.
@philsergeant Heartbreaking to imagine your daughter's pain. Unfortunately, the pain she knows is coming way too soon is still raw from losing her black lab. I pray and meditate at several points in the day, so I'll include your daughter and her dog. There's something deeply gutting about losing a pet that gives you so much love...for anything, even a look their way.
@Djammy sorry to hear Fancy went through so much...and so did you and your family. The one thing I pray for above all else is that I'm here when he passes. As painful as losing Fancy was, at least her final moment on the earth was in the arms of your husband.
Both of you have made me feel better about the desire to stay close to home as much as I can. It doesn't get in the way of things that I must do, and I do get out, I just pass on leaving for stuff that isn't important.
Isn't it neat that the dogs are starting to improve? What a great thread you started. I think this has been a spot several people have learned a lot and helped each other. Glad we continue to post and stay in touch.
Eventually everyone has to find their own ways, but the conversations sure help to get ideas and to find comparisons. I am also happy that thing are developing so well.
I am not through yet with my research about probiotics. All I can tell about the Dr. Mercola Probiotic is - despite the fact that the man himself seems to be highly controversial (just an observation during my research, NO statement about the product, which receives highest ratings everywhere) - I could not find any indication that the Mercola's dog probiotic contains FOS (or Inulin). To be sure, you can take a look at the label. If it says anything like FOS, Fructooligosaccharide or Inulin, it contains the prebiotics in question.
Right now after skipping the "Probiotic Miracle" (different procduct) for Djamila, I noticed kind of a stagnation in the progress of her treatment with ACV. It's not a bad thing, because at least things are not worsening again. But at the moment, it's hard to tell, if the stagnation is a normal reaction during the process and if the ACV will kick in again.
I am planning on giving it some more time. It's too early to talk about results. I know, you did not ask for results, I am just posting the current status. Also I want to see how things will develop when the hot weather cools down for fall.
Still, I am curious to which conclusions I’ll find at the end of my probiotic research.
Hello everyone, I've been keeping up with this thread best I can...sometimes don't comment because there is so much written!!
Anyway, I've decided what I'm doing for Quinn isn't working...I believed that the problem on her feet was yeast coming back because I didn't give her coconut oil for about two weeks. However, I have done the same treatments as I did last time (that worked), and I've seen no improvement. I've been doing medicated wipes once a day and she's back on a spoonful of coconut oil once a day.
Honestly, I don't think it's yeast. There's none of the brownness, not even under her toenails or between her toes. Her hair doesn't look dingy. Problem is, her skin is very pink, more irritated at some times than others, and she licks her feet a lot (I do stop her when I catch her, but sometimes I'll come home and there will be wet spots on the couch from licking!).
I'm not sure which suggestions from this thread would be good because I'm not treating yeast (or at least I don't believe so). Her skin is not bumpy at all, just pink and angry. I don't think this could be dietary. Also since it's only on her feet, I'm wondering if it's an allergy (which she has never had before) or maybe just a rash. I've seen many suggestions of using sudocrem (or a diaper rash cream equivalent for me in the States) and wonder if that would help. Any suggestions for healing creams that would help bump-less skin?
I'll be keeping her on coconut oil for the time being, really helps her coat. Will nix the wipes though. And I know if I go to the vet they'll just prescribe the same stuff... 8-|
Now and again the kids get something like this, not often.. I think it may be from either the pesticides or the fertilizer they use on the golf course near us .(SSSSHHHHH... I know we are not supposed to allow dogs on their precious carpet, but they totally love that tight grass and the rolling hills... to say nothing of the sand traps... They gallop like they heard I've entered them in the Kentucky).... Then next morning they are licking their feet and even limping a bit. My wife puts "Silver" solution on them, and says it "stings" them a little bit... and half hour later it's like nothing happened. [ I don't know what silver solution is, but she it gets it from the health food store]. Hope the same "solution" works for you.
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
@Quinnofhearts I don't think Rodney is dealing with yeast, either. At least, I don't think he's overrun with yeast at the moment. Fingers crossed that all of the bullies here will soon be able to keep that under check internally.
Since each dog has its own triggers and immune system differences, I'm unsure if any of this sounds familiar with Quinn. There's a couple of things with Rodney because I see two separate types of irritation. There's a red persistent rash, almost like a brush burn or the kind of scrape from concrete. It's like a swath of pink with some red flecks in it. It shows up on his chest and on the pointy part of his thighs where his legs would touch the grass. He drops without notice at points during his walks and starts the belly crawl, but seems like he picks yards with thick St. Augustine grass. I'm thinking he might have a grass allergy, so we continue to use an antihistamine. Instead of the Rx, I've started with OTC Benadryl twice a day.
Does that rash sound like Quinn's?
The other issue with his is what looks like acne bumps. When it first showed up with a vengeance, he lost a patch of fur and a few of the bumps erupted but never got infected. It kind of settled down within a week and hair grew back. Later, per @philsergeant 's suggestion, I ordered Etiderm shampoo. That was an awesome recommendation. He has turned the corner and the acne-ish bumps have settled down and there aren't any eruptions, just pink-ish bumps in a few concentrated areas that shift around.
I do have some Vetericyn Hydro Gel that gets tons of great reviews for dogs with rashes. Since the oral antihistamines and Etiderm are working so well, I haven't introduced it to his regimen yet...and probably won't since I'm trying to keep the products to a minimum. If you have time, maybe you can search on Amazon for reviews and see if this helps with rashes like Quinn's.
Hope Quinn is bump-free soon. Hoping that for Rodney, too, but as long as there aren't any open bumps, I'll happily take that for the time being.
@Quinnofhearts When Djamila gets a rash on her belly - if it’s temporary - I usually don’t really “treat” that, because it just happens with Bullies, as well as the pimple like spots. One thing I found helpful though for every event with a risk of infection, is the EPSOM SALT soak. It’s mild, not a shampoo and also has skin softening abilities.
The paws, especially when they start licking them, are a completely different story and I totally understand your concerns. My treatment would focus on trying to reduce the itch. The only thing I can do when I do not exactly know the cause.
This can be done by: external soaks, sprays or creams. Internally with an antihistamine. And frequent washing of the feet - I know you don’t like the idea of frequent washing. I’ll still suggest it for completeness’ sake.
Fancy - our former dog - suffered longterm from allergies and very often heavily from open sores on her feet. She licked a lot and overall required a lot of attention and treatment in those areas. Sometimes it was so bad, she was barely able to walk and she would get fevers from all of that inflammation.
In order to prevent things from getting worse, during the peaks of her allergies we used to wash her feet after EVERY SINGLE time she went outside. So she would not carry the possible allergens inside, spread them around her bed or other places or have them sit on her skin for long to irritate it. That means during those times we washed her feet several times a day. This was also recommended by our vet.
We used Epsom Salt solved in water to WASH the allergens OFF her feet, but also clear water or another MILD, NON-drying disinfectant should do the trick. After rinsing we thoroughly dried her feet, especially between the toes for known reasons. I also exchanged and washed her bedding and vacuumed frequently to remove allergens and microorganisms. Our measures at least most of the time worked to prevent the use of steroids and other harsh medication, on the other hand the more mild remedies also often take their time to work.
In times when Fancy started licking a lot, like exiled I also used to give her Benadryl (dosage info here: http://benadrylfordogs.info/benadryl-dosage-for-dogs/) to soothe the itch. My vet told me that not every antihistamine works equally in every dog. Some do not respond AT all to those meds. If one is not working, chances are that another histamine-blocking ingredient may be successful - or not. It’s trial & error. Luckily, as long as you don’t overdose antihistamines and do not give them longterm, the risk of side effects is low. The only often noticeable side effect is that your dog can become a little more tired than usual while on the antihistamine (same effect as in humans). Still, if considering giving another substance than diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Benadryl), I'd Google it first or talk to a vet to make sure, it’s also recommended for dogs.
IF the antihistamine is working, it will be able to fight the itch a little bit and reduce the licking, which will also give the paws a better chance to heal, not to mention the relief for your dog.
It contains a topical analgesic (Lidocaine) and an anti-inflammatory component (Hydrocortisone). As you probably already know, I am not a big fan - neither internally nor externally - of steroids, which the Hydrocortisone belongs to. However, for more severe cases and short term use, the benefits can outweigh the side effects, especially when only used externally. A problem I see with the sprays, however, is that for example Djamila doesn’t like her feet wet and tends to lick them, when I put something on them. This, of course makes the use of a spray counterproductive, when the feet are already stressed from licking. Also the itch-relieving effect of the Lidocaine on her paws will disappear almost immediately when the spray gets licked off. But Lidocaine is only working short-term anyways, so don’t expect too much of it. Know those lozenges for sore human throats? They’re really good - for about 5-10 minutes. Then the relieving effect of the topical analgesic in them has literally been washed away - by your saliva.
All of the measures above, if helping, should relieve the itch. The spray should also aid the healing process. And the washing should remove possible allergy triggers, that is IF you assume a contact allergy triggered by something outside.
As for the other mentioned remedies, these are all some kinds of disinfectants working against microorganisms. Additional disinfecting is a good idea especially when there are already inflammation and open sores present to avoid secondary infection, which would worsen the itch, licking and inflammation.
Be it the Epsom Salt, Chlorhexidine Gluconate, Benzoyl Peroxide, or the Vetericin Hydrogel, all work against microorganisms. I thought the last one also contains Hydrocortisone, but it doesn’t. The active ingredient is hypochlorous acid, a mild disinfecting acid. So, no steroids present there. Etiderm, a disinfecting shampoo preparation, contains Ethyl Lactate, which is said to be more mild compared to Benzoyl Peroxide. Also the coconut oil you use, among others, has disinfecting abilities. Guess, you already knew that.
The silver solution is yet another disinfectant. Silver has been valued by people for centuries also as a miracle medicine for its believed health benefits (in the form of colloidal silver) and it seems to work for philsergeant’s dogs. However, no study I know of has proven the internal effectiveness so far or that the possible side effects are clearly outweighed by the benefits. Longterm internal use can have considerable side effects. For reference, read this interesting article here http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/argyria-a-cause-in-papa-smurf-death/ or just Google “Argyria”. Yet, colloidal and other forms of silver externally also have antimicrobial abilities. But even used externally it still remains standing among the more controversial remedies.
I myself think that deciding for one disinfectant (or if used separately as shampoo and soaks, maybe two different ones) should be enough.
I know some of you here will hate me for saying this:
But still, according to my research, sadly, even HIGH quality, grain-free kibble, cannot be completely excluded as an allergy trigger as long as no other trigger becomes explicitly known as the culprit. Especially when symptoms are obviously not seasonal.
Nutrition may be a more complex and more influencing factor than many of us already believe. Many are confident that with feeding expensive, high quality kibble they are doing the right thing for their dog. I used to think so, too. Still, the source of many different problems may be feeding a DRY, processed food in the first place. Also we basically don’t know about the eventual composition of the food we’re feeding. We may know, WHAT’s in it, but not HOW MUCH of it. But this is vital information.
I don’t want to unleash a discussion about this here and now. I am still researching, reading and trying to find answers that make sense to me. I just wanted to throw that on the table again, because I believe it remains important.
I am aware that you already know a lot of the things I wrote here @Quinnofhearts, and some of it is just a summary of what has been said before.
I still try to make my postings comprehensive hoping to make it easier for other readers in the future to get the context. That's the reason why. But in this context I also want to make clear that all of the given information is only the result of my research and my own experience. I am not an expert and this is not expert advice.
Hmm...they do spray around our complex every now and again, but I don't think I've seen them do it in a while. And you'd think the rash on her feet would come up and then go away if it were related to fresh pesticides, no? Quinn does occasionally get red spots or blotchiness on her chest and belly but that's usually after a playtime, and I always assume it's from either the grass or the heat. I see it a lot more in summer. But that rash is different than the one on her feet, and it usually goes away within a day. All I do to her belly rashes is wipe them with a cool rag.
@exiled , I don't think Quinn's rash matches either of Rodney's rashes...figures. These dogs are so similar in their breed characteristics and yet they can't have the same rash so we can figure out a solution! Quinn's feet are persistently pink, and when she licks them they get a much darker, angrier pink, almost a reddish purple. Only once has she licked to the point of a wound, and it was smaller than a pea and actually on the pad of her paw. She hasn't been licking today, and the feet are just a light pink, a little bit dry and scaly looking. Not much hair loss.
I wonder, for those that use bag balm, ( @BulliesofNC ), would that help with itchy dry feet?
I've looked up the Vetericyn Hydro Gel, it seems it is more for open wounds or raw skin, not quite like what Quinn has. Nothing is open on her skin. Just very red and pink. I have also suggested Epsom salt soaks for other bullie owners, but as Quinn's skin looks dry, I am afraid the salt soaks would be counter productive for her? What do you think?
I am afraid to jump right to the Benadryl, though that link is helpful. I'd like to try a few topical treatments if I can before I go the pill route, and I definitely want to stay away from steroids. I don't like to give myself pills, much less my dog. Funny thing is, I take allergy medication every day! Quinn's yearly checkup at the vet is usually in September, so we'll be seeing them soon anyway (that is if I can't find another solution for her toes before then).
Frequent washing of her feet isn't really a concern. I just don't bathe her body very often. I usually have to wipe or wash her feet anyway cause she can manage to get them dirty just going for a potty break. However, when I was using those medicated wipes, her feet didn't improve...you'd think those would wipe allergens off too, right? 8-} After looking up Chlorhexidine, I've realized that unfortunately we have already struck out with that drug. The medicated wipes I was using are "PhytoVet CK Wipes." Drugs listed are Chlorhexidine, Ketoconazole, Phytosphingosine. I have no idea what any of that is, but they are "antiseptic cleansing pads." Is it possible I wasn't treating her often enough? I was only wiping her feet once a day, at night.
I do understand what you're saying about diet...the problem is that I cannot afford, in either time or money, to put Quinn on a raw/BARF diet. Quinn has mostly done well on Acana, but I have always wondered if she has a fish allergy. When she was on TotW as a pup, the fish variety would always give her the worst gas. The Acana Singles foods didn't have fish varieties so I never had a problem. Now that I'm on Acana grain-free, I rotate the flavors and she's on the fish variety. I'm about to buy a new bag, so that should answer that question... Considering most people that have dogs with allergies go ON fish flavors, I'd find Quinn to be a little backwards, but that's the only thing I can think of.
I don't want you all @philsergeant@Djammy@exiled to think I'm shooting down suggestions, but I don't want to buy incorrect treatments for her. And I do realize that none of us are really "experts" in the medical or veterinary sense of the term, but honestly I would trust what other bully owners tell me over what my vet tells me...after all, they told me she should lose weight at 39 pounds...then at 41 pounds...then at 46 pounds...you can see I'm listening to them.
I find it perfectly normal to weigh tips and advice, use one and turn down another one.
I would never EXPECT anybody to do as I say. Maybe this is why my posts are always getting so long … I like to provide information, so everyone can make their very own choices, fitting their very own situation.
I did get you a little bit wrong with the foot issue. I thought you are already fighting open sores. But, still the licking indicates that your dog probably feels itchy, which she tries to ease by licking.
Therefore if I were in the same situation, I’d probably still try rinsing off the allergens, provided I’d suspect any outside contact allergen as the trigger.
I don’t know how exactly your wipes are working, but I personally cannot imagine them as effective as real washing/rinsing to remove ALL unwanted material from the dog’s paws. But that is something only you know.
As they all work antimicrobial the ingredients in the wipes (Chlorhexidine, Ketoconazole, Phytosphingosine) should definitely work to disinfect open sores. I personally do not think that they failed do their intended job. Every disinfectant has its limits, but IF open sores are present, in general I’d still consider disinfecting a good effort to limit inflammation processes.
Sadly disinfectants cannot fight the itch. That’s probably the point.
That may be the reason why you did not find them effective for your situation so far. They may already have worked and kept the situation stable by preventing inflammation, without you noticing. But they did not fight the itch, because they can’t. And your dog keeps licking the paws.
That’s where the Benadryl or, if your dog does not lick it off, a spray with a topical analgesic could be worth a try.
I have to be honest, I also first had very mixed feelings about giving my dog a daily medication, especially one that is intended for humans (Benadryl). So I really understand your hesitation.
By the way, I had decided for the Epsom Salt as a disinfecting agent for use over longer terms, if needed, because after my research I consider it among the most mild ones for the dog’s skin. It actually has skin softening abilities. So it’s not one of the harsh agents that can dry out or irritate the skin. I really value this characteristic of the Epsom Salt and find that it benefits Djamila’s skin and does not dry it. I don’t see any flakes on her skin after using it.
Still, even this kind of remedy comes with side effects - I think there’s none that doesn’t. The best way of making a choice is to research the suggested remedies yourself and then decide, if the benefits in your opinion outweigh the risks.
I am also only telling you about the Epsom Salt here again, because you asked. As it is also a disinfecting agent, it probably doesn't make much sense to also use it, if you continue with those disinfecting wipes. There's already enough disinfectant in them.
If you decide that you don’t want to give ANY of the suggested remedies a try, you could still try to rinse your dog’s feet after every time she goes outside with clear, fresh water and see how that’s working out.
After rinsing I consider thorough towel drying very important, because among other reasons wet paws could trigger the licking again.
The rinsing is exhausting, but could be successful in case you really have a contact allergen here.
I think as long as you do not have to deal with open sores, the itch fighting and the rinsing (which basically serves the same purpose) would probably be all I’d try for now and see how things develop. The disinfecting at the moment seems to work more like some kind of fail-safe for you. I mean it’s not a bad thing, but will probably not be enough against the itch.
Regarding the food, I absolutely get your point.
When we switched from regular pet food from the grocery store to high quality food some years ago with Fancy, I seriously asked myself, if we will always be able to afford that. The nutrition of our dog (including supplements) consumes almost as much as our own nutrition does. That’s a challenge for dog owners.
Also unfortunately food is the least safe topic to give any advice for, because all dogs react so differently to it. So much of it is just trial & error.
I am just pointing it out over and over, because I think, nutrition - even high quality - remains a valid allergy factor that sadly cannot be excluded when looking for causes.
Honestly, I am very sad about that, because one would assume that if I spend a load of money for food, it should be good for me (or my dog).
We will pretty soon make the switch to producing our own completely raw diet for Djamila for a trial period. Of course, we are also on the hunt for the best affordable way, looking up the tools needed, how and what to buy, recipes for a balanced mix etc.
If you guys like, again just for information, I will be happy to keep you updated on how it works for us in a new discussion.
I am really curious myself and for now do not dare to hope that it will work like a charm.
But the switch will take a while anyway, because we have not even started yet. We still have much of the Darwin raw diet and Blue Buffalo kibble left. Also after switching we will have to give it some time to get some reliable results.
Lots of great information on this discussion! So many suggestions, recommendations, and advice.
I sure wish all Bull Terriers were the exact same and diagnosing and treating all skin problems were the same. However, each dog can be susceptible to different ailments. It's no surprise that many have tried so many things in order to prevent and cure a skin issue with their Bullie. This time of year is real bad too. It's common to find that some Bull Terriers are very sensitive to mosquito bites and flea bites. It's amazing that one Bull Terrier can sustain multiple bites from bugs while another can react to only a couple bites. I guess the same goes for people because I can be outside all day and never see a mosquito while my wife can walk outside for 5 minutes during dusk and get bit up all over.
Flea bites and bug bites are often easier to notice because they usually show up as small bites that raise the skin and often leave small scabs. A dog affected by these bites will have red scabby patches often in isolated areas.
My number one best advice for any skin problem with Bull Terriers is to always focus your attention on improving and strengthening the immune system. A strong immune system is the BEST defense for common skin ailments.
I swear by the Nuvet that my Bullies are on because I know it's working. I used to use other supplements and many worked decent. It's only been within the last couple years I kept with NuVet because their reviews were better than any of the others. I use to use GNC Multivitamin which worked fairly well too. A couple years ago they actually had a Bull Terrier on the bottle (go figure). Now they have a Golden Retriever. Attached below is the GNC supplement which can be found at stores vice ordering online like you have to with the NuVet. Anyhow, I'll stick with the NuVet because I know it's great stuff and really works.
I've been giving my Bullies that Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar for the past couple weeks just for GP. Right now I don't have any skin issues with my Bullies so I can't provide much feedback as to good or bad. I will be testing it during the next time I get in a rescue that has skin issues. I'd like to see the results of using it for a week straight along with proper diet before I initiate the NuVet supplement.
The NuVet Plus has worked wonders with Rodney, too, and I'm glad you have a link to it on your site. The company is great to deal with, too. They helped set up auto-delivery to accommodate doubling up for a certain period of time and then back to once a day. I don't have to do anything other than give it to him.
@Djammy, definitely understand about why the wipes aren't working...after previous success with them, it's frustrating! But I'm treating two different things, it seems. She's still biting and chewing her feet, sometimes she'll seem to get an itch somewhere else she just can't satisfy. I know I had mentioned the fish maybe being a culprit but turns out they use some variety of fish meal in pretty much everything I give her, so it can't be that... She's definitely not going to be too thrilled about me rinsing her feet! She acts so sad like it's the worst punishment on earth. Poor little baby. :o3
Looked into NuVet...holy expensive supplement Batman! I guess it's not really so bad considering it would start as a 3 month supply, but I certainly would hope it would do some real good for my dog at that price. @exiled what sort of improvements did you see in Rodney? Did it help with skin or itching?
All supplements and vitamins are expensive but then again so is quality food. You don't want to know my monthly bill on these necessities for my family of Bullies. $-) Well worth it though.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
@Quinnofhearts It's hard to say for sure since I've added a few things to the mix. However, he doesn't itch, and I don't see him licking his feet often. Every now and then he'll try to scratch but he's not very flexible so the back leg is scratching at air, lol. We gently rub wherever we think he was trying to scratch.
What the NuVet seems to address is the immune system. I think Rodney's immune system is doing great. The bumps he has do not get infected and his hair seems to be filling in some, despite the weather still being ridiculously hot here. I am planning to keep the NuVet supplement in his regimen, probably forever as long as it seems to be helping. Long story short, the NuVet is definitely helping his immune system. However, I think his skin allergies (appears to be related to grass exposure) are a beast we're still trying to tame. It's better. I'd definitely recommend you try it, at least for one bottle. You should probably get an idea whether or not it's helping with her immune system with that first bottle. I don't think there's one product that will clear up his bumps, but I feel this is helping enough to justify the expense. Note that I did up the dosage to twice a day for one bottle per the NuVet representative and that's when I noticed him turning the corner. His history is what prompted the person to suggest the doubling dosage. She felt like dogs that had been in rescue situations benefit from the extra boost.
I just want to report back what has worked for me. Knowing that these steps will not neccesarily work for every dog. But I am feeling a lot better after 8 weeks of frustration. I still think it's 60% food.... again, if someone can point out where you establish the amount (and quality) of fish, (for example) in a particular brand... I don't know, but to me excessive sugars and protein cause problems ... We tried really good foods and ended up believing that Orijen GF and Pure Vita GF work best. It's probably going to be trial and error for everyone until they get the desired result. We still mix in raw, cut OUT the cooked chicken and their coats are 100% better. Of course we are washing more frequently with medicated shampoos... (at this time of year, whenever they exercise, Issa's whole body and Marco's white feet are totally blue from the herbicide/ pesticide/ fertilizer they use around here.... by spreader and crop sprayer)... Take a look at the photos of Issa's coat, still not as thick as Marco's (I don't think it'll ever be) is nice and smooth and growing in. She hasn't had the antibiotic for two weeks, but I am certain the short pill regime was what enabled her to fight it off. Naturally they get their NuVet and their Probiotics and Salmon Oil... and they are NOT allowed any stray foods or treats.
Happy that everything worked out so well for you. The coats both look really nice!
Off topic: I sooooooo love the color of your brindle. I want to steal them away and put them on Djamila She also has golden highlights, but a lot less than yours. So beautiful!
Maya is itching around her collar area, I can't tell if she's not liking the collar or if she is having some sort of allergy. She didn't wear a collar for about 3 weeks and now I've got her wearing one daily. She attempts to scratch one side of her neck (her little legs don't quite reach) but when I scratch it for her she definitely reacts with an 'oh that feels good' face. I don't see a rash or irritated skin, have any of your puppies done this? I don't want to be overly worried about skin allergies, but I know it can be an issue so I want to stay on top of it. I might remove the collar to test, but she's going outside more and I worry with her not having it on.
Quinn doesn't wear collars because she has "tickle" spots on the underside of her neck. I can trigger them easily when she's not wearing a collar. When she does wear a collar she's constantly trying to itch her neck in the middle of walking. This was the case even when she was a puppy and no mater how many different types or sizes of collar I have bought, she still itches at them. I don't have a backyard though, so she only wears a collar when we go out in public.
I actually talked to my veterinarian about some options and she recommended benadryl! She was not aware about the proper dosage amount so I had to google it and found this webpage: http://www.anydogrescue.org/benadryl-for-dogs/. I tried giving a little lower than the recommended dosage just to be on the safe side, but the recommended dose is fine too.
Well even though fish is usually the suggested protein for dogs with allergies, it seems Quinn is going against the grain...I have noticed a lot less licking and biting since we've been through nearly a whole bag of a different flavor of Acana. This food still has certain types of fish meal in it, but maybe since it's less it's not affecting her allergies as much. Honestly with no other changes in her diet I have to assume that fish or some type of fish is the culprit. Skin still isn't perfect, so might have to try a few more things (including that Benadryl) but we'll get there. Hopefully.
Sorry I haven't had time to read everyone's comments. I would like to try treat my dogs yeast infection in ears and on feet with Apple Cider Vinegar. I was just wondering how I would go about doing this? From some comments I gather you are also feeding it to the dog, I was just wondering how much?
Some dogs really like the taste of ACV. Some don’t and also not the smell. You’ll see with your dog.
Always use ACV WITH MOTHER (it’s the effective part of the ACV, the clear ACV is said not to be effective). Shake the bottle before every use.
Do not feed it undiluted!
NEVER use AVC - especially not undiluted - on open sores and infected areas! It stings and your dog will probably freak out.
A very affordable way to disinfect open sores is Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). Dilute the 3% solution 1:1 (H2O2 works disinfecting even in dilutions up to 0.3%) to minimize the drying effect for the skin.
Note: The higher the concentration the more H2O2 bleaches/ lightens darker furs. Unfortunately it also bleaches clothes, furniture fabric, Carpet etc.
Make sure neither ACV (diluted or undiluted) OR Hydrogen Peroxide (diluted or undiluted) get into your dog’s eyes or nose. Into the mouth is not a problem.
ACV helps maintain the acid/alkaline balance in your dog and aids digestive health. It is even said to help with parasites such as fleas, ringworm, ticks, fungus, and bacteria. That’s why so many people use it for yeast.
1. You can feed AVC as follows:
1-2 Teaspoons mixed into the food or the drinking water for a mid-sized dog.
Do not feed it undiluted.
Rub/ Spray/ Ear solution:
1:1 Dilution ACV/ water
EARS (Never use AVC undiluted in the ears)
Note: You can actually also use ACV for your dog’s ears - PROVIDED the ear drum is intact and there is not already inflammation going on in the ear! Because in that case the ACV could irritate the ear even more, sting or cause even more damage to the ear canal.
I case there is already severe inflammation going on in the ear, I would not rely on home remedies. In that case a prescribed topical antibiotic especially for the ears will probably be more powerful and effective than the comparatively mild home remedies. Procrastinated ear infections can cause long-term damage. Antibiotics given topically will likely not add to the weakened condition of your dog. As topical antibiotics do not pass the gastrointestinal tract, they are far less likely to harm the gut flora, which is a major problem with antibiotics given orally.
Despite the antimicrobial characteristics of the ACV I store it in the fridge. Also any dilutions I prepare. If I prepare dilutions I do not take tap water, I buy distilled water. You can also use sterile medical saline solution to dilute it.
For the ears I always only prepare a small amount and do not store it for long, just to be sure.
I do not like to “water” my dog’s ear with the solution (also she does not like that . I take a cotton ball, damp it and wipe the ear in all areas I can reach. I also do not go too deep. While it is good and important to get the residue removed, moisture should not remain in the dog’s ear, especially when yeast overgrowth is present. I just wipe the ear with as many damp cotton balls as it need to remove what I can reach. Small excess amounts of moisture will be removed automatically, because your dog will start shaking his head. In case the ear gets too wet I finish the cleaning with a dry cotton ball. In times I feel she produces a lot of residue, I just clean her ears a little more often.
PAW RUB
On my dog’s paws I use it undiluted as long as they do not show open sores. I take a small piece of kitchen paper, wet it and rub between her toes, over her nails and the hollow foot bottom. Also here I make sure her paws do not turn out WET.
I do it twice a day. I does not work miracles and I was not able to eliminate the yeast completely with it so far, although I’ve been using it for a long time now (months). However, I feel that it keeps the situation under control and the yeast receded a bit.
Again: If your dog licks and has open sores, he will probably freak out with ACV, because it stings. In that case other non-stinging disinfectants are the better choice.
BODY SPRAY OR RUB
ACV is also used to maintain the flora of the skin as body rubs. My dog does not like sprays. Therefore I use ACV to rub skin folds with a damp kitchen paper, not wet enough to leave her skin wet. The rub can be done diluted or undiluted provided no open sores are present. Also do not use it around the eyes.
Thank you very much, that was of great help. I have started her on ACV a teaspoon with her food morning and night and luckily she loves it. I'll give it a go on her body and ears today. She developed the yeast problem after taking antibiotics but has always had a mild skin rash which has also flared up since finishing the antibiotics.
Oh exiled UR comment on UR brothers two dogs who got worms even with treatment MY VET SAID AS LONG AS THE DOG HAS BEEN TREATED THE MANUFACTURER PAYS FULL COARSE OF TREAT MENT AT THE VET. BUT I GIVE MISS YWO MCDOUBLE PLAIN IF NOT SHE HAS SIDE effects. I DONT LIKE SEEING HER SICK AND THAT PREVENTS THAT. FOR I TOO HAVE TO USE the K9 ADVANTIX TWO FOR ticks. IG not 30 plus more ticks would b on her daily BUT AFTER I FULLY READ THIS THREAD ILL KNOW SO MUCH MORE AND THANKS AGAIN U GUYS have DONE ALIT OF WORK.
Its got to be those two mcdoubles or CANIDAE lamb IT HAS SWEET POT I checked missys feet and pushed back the hair on her nails AND ITS A DARK BASE. SO ITS STILL YEAST. IVE CUT ALMOST ALL TREATS OUT been boiling CHIKN rice liver rice IT CLD B THE RICE I STILL HAVE TO GET THE NUVET AND COCONUT oil. IM UNDERSTANDING THE HOLISTIC APPROACH. SO ITS COMMON ON THE WHITE BULLIE she had had antibiotics and yeast n her ears now the yeast out of her ear and in her toenails SHE DOESNT LICK or seem to b n distress and her feet isn't red. I'm glad she's calmed down enough to let ME CLIP HER NAILS. IVE GOT EVERYTHING elsE EVEN OTIC HC I read about the apple cider vinegar and the coconut oil AND IMPORTANCE of NUVET I love the white bull but now am suffering from battle with yeast. SO IM JOINING THE REST OF THE GANG AND GETTING TO the ROOT of IT. ILL TAKE SOME PICS and WHEN DO U TAKE TO THE VET. IDK IT SEEMS LIKE IF IT DOESNT CLEAR UP n a month I ought to go or IDK its at the base of all her nails and it seems like a build up of yeast or I better go cause what if its ringworm in a white bull terrier ILL GET PIC TOM SHES SLEEPING. THANKS for TAKING the TIME AND SHARING UR EXPERIENCES.
Comments
Keeping fingers crossed for the bump issues to disappear soon.
For some reason I expected the flea and heartworm prevention to repel insects. But obviously the meds kill parasites INSIDE the dog.
So seeing mosquitoes circling the dog is not necessarily an alarm signal.
There are so many discussions going on about heartworm just a moneymaking myth for the pharmaceutical industry or real menace. At this point I just don't want to risk it. We're on the same page here.
Never tried those mosquito dunks though. Will do! thanks for the tip!
Great idea for our porch. I have the same problem of just being too attractive to mosquitoes. We also like the mosquito candles for outside. They really seem to work.
@philsergeant
So, your Bullies are free of bumps again?
Which probiotic are you feeding? Do you use powder, tablets or just yoghurt? How exactly did you manage to cut out ALL of the sugars? Which diet do you feed to your dogs? I know, I'm SO nosy
Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chicken liver oil, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fibre, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*....
Can't ask for more, yum yum!~~~ & 50% Pure Vita ,which they are loving (Bison for Marco, Turkey for Issa)... it has sweet potato and peas but hopefully not too much SP. In the morning they get Kibble and Greek low fat, low sugar yoghurt, that's it..... At night (we ditched the cooked chicken and replaced it) with canned peas, beans, pinto beans etc. Plus raw [beef, turkey, chicken or duck (one of these)] and kibble and probiotics powder sprinkle and salmon oil... big bowl and they demolish it all..... Nothing else besides water and turkey bacon treats. The probiotics is from Mercola (interesting website).. photo attached. I don't think you can cut all their sugars, but I think the kibble they were on before (Victor GF) had a LOT of sweet potato.. could be wrong.
On the human side, we were talking last night about the fact that when we spent a lot of time in Italy (perhaps other places) the whole culture is so focused not only on the preparation & taste, but also the QUALITY, and GOODNESS of different foods and on totally proper food consumption. We don't begin to have a decent comprehension of that here in US. Too many of us eat total junk.
He was at the dog park last night, so we washed him with the Etiderm. That stuff has been great. He's white and clean, but not dried out. I think the ACV, Orijen kibble, along with the NuVet Plus and antihistamines are working. Bedding is cleaned in hot water every day. He got a dose of Trifexis a few days ago (it's a monthly tablet). I haven't been doing this every day, maybe once or twice a week, but using those Douxo pads to clean/disinfect between his toes. What looked like a furuncle revving up has pretty much gone away. I brush him every day. The bag balm on his dry/cracked elbows once a day is working, too. We put a dab of that on the tip of his nose every day, too. He gets lots of exercise every day.
All in all, he's looking "even" if that makes sense. His white fur has a sort of light, sheen to it. He's looking good. I don't think anyone would know there's any skin or allergy issues going on.
Could it be any of these or some combination, who knows. This is list of what I'm currently using daily or weekly. I'm sure some people will be convinced I'm doing something completely wrong, too much, or not enough, but this is working for Rodney. He wouldn't eat hardly at all. The vet has had great luck with dogs in our climate eating in the cooler part of the evening ONLY. I have to say, it worked instantly and has kept working like a charm during the summer. Not changing that until cooler weather, so no one should even attempt to try to convince me otherwise, lol.
Orijen Red (2 cups once a day during summer, per vet)
Grizzly Salmon Oil (2 pumps daily)
Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar with "mother" (tsp daily)
Canned organic pumpkin (big TBSP daily)
NuVet Plus (twice a day, but switching to once a day next week)
Antihistamine (twice a day)
Douxo pads (once or twice a week)
Bag Balm (daily)
Etiderm shampoo (once or twice a week)
CET toothpaste and toothbrush (thorough cleaning, weekly at a minimum)
Nolvasan Otic (for cleaning his ears, weekly at a minimum)
I'm convinced this will be a fluid situation. As the weather changes, and as his immunity system has its ups and downs, No doubt, he'll need a kibble change if he starts to tire of his current diet, but I'm convinced the Orijen is an excellent food and will try to stick with it. The pumpkin is awesome. I'm sure the skin will flare up at some point. I have the Vetericyn Hydro Gel that I haven't used at all yet. The Douxo pads are usually used daily, but those are just a sort of maintenance thing at the moment to clean up his "webs" between his toes. He's looking great. I look at him, and I'm honestly, stunned and awestruck at how gorgeous he is.
I hope this hasn't come across as obnoxious. The reason for this post is because there's hope for a right combination of food/skin care for BTs, but it has to be for that individual dog's system. I'm locking in on Rodney's, and it is suddenly glaring HOW MUCH BETTER he looks in a couple of weeks. Surely, some of the things were working prior to the past two weeks, but everything is catching up. Now, the wait is to see if it keeps working, or if I've introduced something that will start to show itself gradually. Fingers crossed.
Sorry for the long explanation, but this thread has been so wonderful that I am using this space to document his progress.
Tell me how Djamilla is doing. Praying she's made a lot of progress, too!
I don't know why I'm giong into this here, but, I guess Rodney is going to be here for me, I know, to help me get through the inevitable loss of my precious love, Mont Blanc. Rodney's become a valuable part of my family. I wouldn't do any less for him than I'm doing. When he gets old, I'm hoping to be alive and able to take care of him the same I'm doing for Mont Blanc.
Well, this has no connection to yeast, lol. Thanks to everyone for being kind.
@Djammy sorry to hear Fancy went through so much...and so did you and your family. The one thing I pray for above all else is that I'm here when he passes. As painful as losing Fancy was, at least her final moment on the earth was in the arms of your husband.
Both of you have made me feel better about the desire to stay close to home as much as I can. It doesn't get in the way of things that I must do, and I do get out, I just pass on leaving for stuff that isn't important.
Isn't it neat that the dogs are starting to improve? What a great thread you started. I think this has been a spot several people have learned a lot and helped each other. Glad we continue to post and stay in touch.
Anyway, I've decided what I'm doing for Quinn isn't working...I believed that the problem on her feet was yeast coming back because I didn't give her coconut oil for about two weeks. However, I have done the same treatments as I did last time (that worked), and I've seen no improvement. I've been doing medicated wipes once a day and she's back on a spoonful of coconut oil once a day.
Honestly, I don't think it's yeast. There's none of the brownness, not even under her toenails or between her toes. Her hair doesn't look dingy. Problem is, her skin is very pink, more irritated at some times than others, and she licks her feet a lot (I do stop her when I catch her, but sometimes I'll come home and there will be wet spots on the couch from licking!).
I'm not sure which suggestions from this thread would be good because I'm not treating yeast (or at least I don't believe so). Her skin is not bumpy at all, just pink and angry. I don't think this could be dietary. Also since it's only on her feet, I'm wondering if it's an allergy (which she has never had before) or maybe just a rash. I've seen many suggestions of using sudocrem (or a diaper rash cream equivalent for me in the States) and wonder if that would help. Any suggestions for healing creams that would help bump-less skin?
I'll be keeping her on coconut oil for the time being, really helps her coat. Will nix the wipes though. And I know if I go to the vet they'll just prescribe the same stuff... 8-|
[ I don't know what silver solution is, but she it gets it from the health food store]. Hope the same "solution" works for you.
Since each dog has its own triggers and immune system differences, I'm unsure if any of this sounds familiar with Quinn. There's a couple of things with Rodney because I see two separate types of irritation. There's a red persistent rash, almost like a brush burn or the kind of scrape from concrete. It's like a swath of pink with some red flecks in it. It shows up on his chest and on the pointy part of his thighs where his legs would touch the grass. He drops without notice at points during his walks and starts the belly crawl, but seems like he picks yards with thick St. Augustine grass. I'm thinking he might have a grass allergy, so we continue to use an antihistamine. Instead of the Rx, I've started with OTC Benadryl twice a day.
Does that rash sound like Quinn's?
The other issue with his is what looks like acne bumps. When it first showed up with a vengeance, he lost a patch of fur and a few of the bumps erupted but never got infected. It kind of settled down within a week and hair grew back. Later, per @philsergeant 's suggestion, I ordered Etiderm shampoo. That was an awesome recommendation. He has turned the corner and the acne-ish bumps have settled down and there aren't any eruptions, just pink-ish bumps in a few concentrated areas that shift around.
I do have some Vetericyn Hydro Gel that gets tons of great reviews for dogs with rashes. Since the oral antihistamines and Etiderm are working so well, I haven't introduced it to his regimen yet...and probably won't since I'm trying to keep the products to a minimum. If you have time, maybe you can search on Amazon for reviews and see if this helps with rashes like Quinn's.
Hope Quinn is bump-free soon. Hoping that for Rodney, too, but as long as there aren't any open bumps, I'll happily take that for the time being.
When Djamila gets a rash on her belly - if it’s temporary - I usually don’t really “treat” that, because it just happens with Bullies, as well as the pimple like spots.
One thing I found helpful though for every event with a risk of infection, is the EPSOM SALT soak. It’s mild, not a shampoo and also has skin softening abilities.
The paws, especially when they start licking them, are a completely different story and I totally understand your concerns.
My treatment would focus on trying to reduce the itch. The only thing I can do when I do not exactly know the cause.
This can be done by: external soaks, sprays or creams. Internally with an antihistamine. And frequent washing of the feet - I know you don’t like the idea of frequent washing. I’ll still suggest it for completeness’ sake.
Fancy - our former dog - suffered longterm from allergies and very often heavily from open sores on her feet. She licked a lot and overall required a lot of attention and treatment in those areas. Sometimes it was so bad, she was barely able to walk and she would get fevers from all of that inflammation.
In order to prevent things from getting worse, during the peaks of her allergies we used to wash her feet after EVERY SINGLE time she went outside. So she would not carry the possible allergens inside, spread them around her bed or other places or have them sit on her skin for long to irritate it. That means during those times we washed her feet several times a day. This was also recommended by our vet.
We used Epsom Salt solved in water to WASH the allergens OFF her feet, but also clear water or another MILD, NON-drying disinfectant should do the trick.
After rinsing we thoroughly dried her feet, especially between the toes for known reasons.
I also exchanged and washed her bedding and vacuumed frequently to remove allergens and microorganisms. Our measures at least most of the time worked to prevent the use of steroids and other harsh medication, on the other hand the more mild remedies also often take their time to work.
In times when Fancy started licking a lot, like exiled I also used to give her Benadryl (dosage info here: http://benadrylfordogs.info/benadryl-dosage-for-dogs/) to soothe the itch.
My vet told me that not every antihistamine works equally in every dog. Some do not respond AT all to those meds. If one is not working, chances are that another histamine-blocking ingredient may be successful - or not. It’s trial & error.
Luckily, as long as you don’t overdose antihistamines and do not give them longterm, the risk of side effects is low.
The only often noticeable side effect is that your dog can become a little more tired than usual while on the antihistamine (same effect as in humans).
Still, if considering giving another substance than diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Benadryl), I'd Google it first or talk to a vet to make sure, it’s also recommended for dogs.
IF the antihistamine is working, it will be able to fight the itch a little bit and reduce the licking, which will also give the paws a better chance to heal, not to mention the relief for your dog.
There are also topical itch-relieving sprays available that could be used instead or in addition, like this one, for example:
http://www.amazon.com/SynergyLabs-Veterinary-Formula-Clinical-Medicated/dp/B0037Z6VJE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407608077&sr=8-1&keywords=dog+lidocaine
It contains a topical analgesic (Lidocaine) and an anti-inflammatory component (Hydrocortisone). As you probably already know, I am not a big fan - neither internally nor externally - of steroids, which the Hydrocortisone belongs to.
However, for more severe cases and short term use, the benefits can outweigh the side effects, especially when only used externally. A problem I see with the sprays, however, is that for example Djamila doesn’t like her feet wet and tends to lick them, when I put something on them. This, of course makes the use of a spray counterproductive, when the feet are already stressed from licking. Also the itch-relieving effect of the Lidocaine on her paws will disappear almost immediately when the spray gets licked off. But Lidocaine is only working short-term anyways, so don’t expect too much of it.
Know those lozenges for sore human throats? They’re really good - for about 5-10 minutes. Then the relieving effect of the topical analgesic in them has literally been washed away - by your saliva.
All of the measures above, if helping, should relieve the itch. The spray should also aid the healing process. And the washing should remove possible allergy triggers, that is IF you assume a contact allergy triggered by something outside.
As for the other mentioned remedies, these are all some kinds of disinfectants working against microorganisms.
Additional disinfecting is a good idea especially when there are already inflammation and open sores present to avoid secondary infection, which would worsen the itch, licking and inflammation.
Be it the Epsom Salt, Chlorhexidine Gluconate, Benzoyl Peroxide, or the Vetericin Hydrogel, all work against microorganisms. I thought the last one also contains Hydrocortisone, but it doesn’t. The active ingredient is hypochlorous acid, a mild disinfecting acid. So, no steroids present there.
Etiderm, a disinfecting shampoo preparation, contains Ethyl Lactate, which is said to be more mild compared to Benzoyl Peroxide.
Also the coconut oil you use, among others, has disinfecting abilities. Guess, you already knew that.
The silver solution is yet another disinfectant. Silver has been valued by people for centuries also as a miracle medicine for its believed health benefits (in the form of colloidal silver) and it seems to work for philsergeant’s dogs.
However, no study I know of has proven the internal effectiveness so far or that the possible side effects are clearly outweighed by the benefits. Longterm internal use can have considerable side effects. For reference, read this interesting article here
http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/argyria-a-cause-in-papa-smurf-death/
or just Google “Argyria”.
Yet, colloidal and other forms of silver externally also have antimicrobial abilities. But even used externally it still remains standing among the more controversial remedies.
@exiled , I don't think Quinn's rash matches either of Rodney's rashes...figures. These dogs are so similar in their breed characteristics and yet they can't have the same rash so we can figure out a solution! Quinn's feet are persistently pink, and when she licks them they get a much darker, angrier pink, almost a reddish purple. Only once has she licked to the point of a wound, and it was smaller than a pea and actually on the pad of her paw. She hasn't been licking today, and the feet are just a light pink, a little bit dry and scaly looking. Not much hair loss.
I wonder, for those that use bag balm, ( @BulliesofNC ), would that help with itchy dry feet?
I've looked up the Vetericyn Hydro Gel, it seems it is more for open wounds or raw skin, not quite like what Quinn has. Nothing is open on her skin. Just very red and pink. I have also suggested Epsom salt soaks for other bullie owners, but as Quinn's skin looks dry, I am afraid the salt soaks would be counter productive for her? What do you think?
I am afraid to jump right to the Benadryl, though that link is helpful. I'd like to try a few topical treatments if I can before I go the pill route, and I definitely want to stay away from steroids. I don't like to give myself pills, much less my dog. Funny thing is, I take allergy medication every day! Quinn's yearly checkup at the vet is usually in September, so we'll be seeing them soon anyway (that is if I can't find another solution for her toes before then).
Frequent washing of her feet isn't really a concern. I just don't bathe
her body very often. I usually have to wipe or wash her feet anyway
cause she can manage to get them dirty just going for a potty break.
However, when I was using those medicated wipes, her feet didn't
improve...you'd think those would wipe allergens off too, right? 8-} After looking up Chlorhexidine, I've realized that unfortunately we have already struck out with that drug. The medicated wipes I was using are "PhytoVet CK Wipes." Drugs listed are Chlorhexidine, Ketoconazole, Phytosphingosine. I have no idea what any of that is, but they are "antiseptic cleansing pads." Is it possible I wasn't treating her often enough? I was only wiping her feet once a day, at night.
I do understand what you're saying about diet...the problem is that I cannot afford, in either time or money, to put Quinn on a raw/BARF diet. Quinn has mostly done well on Acana, but I have always wondered if she has a fish allergy. When she was on TotW as a pup, the fish variety would always give her the worst gas. The Acana Singles foods didn't have fish varieties so I never had a problem. Now that I'm on Acana grain-free, I rotate the flavors and she's on the fish variety. I'm about to buy a new bag, so that should answer that question... Considering most people that have dogs with allergies go ON fish flavors, I'd find Quinn to be a little backwards, but that's the only thing I can think of.
I don't want you all @philsergeant @Djammy @exiled to think I'm shooting down suggestions, but I don't want to buy incorrect treatments for her. And I do realize that none of us are really "experts" in the medical or veterinary sense of the term, but honestly I would trust what other bully owners tell me over what my vet tells me...after all, they told me she should lose weight at 39 pounds...then at 41 pounds...then at 46 pounds...you can see I'm listening to them.
I sure wish all Bull Terriers were the exact same and diagnosing and treating all skin problems were the same. However, each dog can be susceptible to different ailments. It's no surprise that many have tried so many things in order to prevent and cure a skin issue with their Bullie. This time of year is real bad too. It's common to find that some Bull Terriers are very sensitive to mosquito bites and flea bites. It's amazing that one Bull Terrier can sustain multiple bites from bugs while another can react to only a couple bites. I guess the same goes for people because I can be outside all day and never see a mosquito while my wife can walk outside for 5 minutes during dusk and get bit up all over.
Flea bites and bug bites are often easier to notice because they usually show up as small bites that raise the skin and often leave small scabs. A dog affected by these bites will have red scabby patches often in isolated areas.
My number one best advice for any skin problem with Bull Terriers is to always focus your attention on improving and strengthening the immune system. A strong immune system is the BEST defense for common skin ailments.
I swear by the Nuvet that my Bullies are on because I know it's working. I used to use other supplements and many worked decent. It's only been within the last couple years I kept with NuVet because their reviews were better than any of the others. I use to use GNC Multivitamin which worked fairly well too. A couple years ago they actually had a Bull Terrier on the bottle (go figure). Now they have a Golden Retriever. Attached below is the GNC supplement which can be found at stores vice ordering online like you have to with the NuVet. Anyhow, I'll stick with the NuVet because I know it's great stuff and really works.
I've been giving my Bullies that Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar for the past couple weeks just for GP. Right now I don't have any skin issues with my Bullies so I can't provide much feedback as to good or bad. I will be testing it during the next time I get in a rescue that has skin issues. I'd like to see the results of using it for a week straight along with proper diet before I initiate the NuVet supplement.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Looked into NuVet...holy expensive supplement Batman! I guess it's not really so bad considering it would start as a 3 month supply, but I certainly would hope it would do some real good for my dog at that price. @exiled what sort of improvements did you see in Rodney? Did it help with skin or itching?
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
What the NuVet seems to address is the immune system. I think Rodney's immune system is doing great. The bumps he has do not get infected and his hair seems to be filling in some, despite the weather still being ridiculously hot here. I am planning to keep the NuVet supplement in his regimen, probably forever as long as it seems to be helping. Long story short, the NuVet is definitely helping his immune system. However, I think his skin allergies (appears to be related to grass exposure) are a beast we're still trying to tame. It's better. I'd definitely recommend you try it, at least for one bottle. You should probably get an idea whether or not it's helping with her immune system with that first bottle. I don't think there's one product that will clear up his bumps, but I feel this is helping enough to justify the expense. Note that I did up the dosage to twice a day for one bottle per the NuVet representative and that's when I noticed him turning the corner. His history is what prompted the person to suggest the doubling dosage. She felt like dogs that had been in rescue situations benefit from the extra boost.
Take a look at the photos of Issa's coat, still not as thick as Marco's (I don't think it'll ever be) is nice and smooth and growing in. She hasn't had the antibiotic for two weeks, but I am certain the short pill regime was what enabled her to fight it off. Naturally they get their NuVet and their Probiotics and Salmon Oil... and they are NOT allowed any stray foods or treats.
Off topic:
I sooooooo love the color of your brindle. I want to steal them away and put them on Djamila
I might remove the collar to test, but she's going outside more and I worry with her not having it on.
Thanks for the insight.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Please keep us posted on your results. It is always interesting.