puppies are here

fontana666

so first off i know some people are going to hate me. by no means am i a byb (backyard breeder). i love EBT just as much as you guys.  for 7 years i have been into bullies. researching the breed, researching breeding..  3.5 years ago i got my fiirst male. very handsome, healthy, great with kids and all animals, no ocd and just full of love.

i then set out to find a mate.  i found a breeder with one female pup left. i examined the parents for a while. looked at health and temperament. all looked amazing from these 5 year old dogs.  good akc background

so i got her in july  2013. cute and very loving girl. follows me everywhere.  shes had shots and check ups.  vet said shes very healthy.  well to make a long story short she had her second heat at 10months old.  i get ready to go to work one day and i diaper her up and put her in the spare room and close the door.  i also at the time had a dog sitter who stopped by twice a day to check on them. well my male got out and banged the door open and got her. they were stuck when i got home.  so i call the vet (close friends of mine) have her come in over and over. they thought she was going through a false pregnancy but i prepared none the less. whelping, station, space heater and blankets. turns out she was pregnant for sure. april 10 2014  she had a litter of 2 pups and shes is just a tad over a year old. ive been so hard on myself for letting this happen. i wanted to breed at 3.  well i wasnt home during labor. came home to 2 healthy pups. all licked clean and no placenta to be found.  got her upstairs in the whelp zone now.

seeing as how im a first time "breeder" i found a mentor. lisa who bred mini ebt and german sheps. she past away last week from breast cancer.  now i have no mentor.  i have been home upstairs with mom and pups 3 days strait.  making sure everything is ok.

please understand i love my dogs and by no means wanted this to happen.  any help from you wonderful folks would be great. i need to keep calm.  thank you i am ashamed but responsible enough to take care. and like ive said 7 years of research. sorry and thanks again

p.s. both pups have great homes to go to in 8 weeks

BulliesofNC

@fontana666 - There's a lot to explain in regard to whelping a litter of Bull Terrier puppies. Too much to try and type on a forum and guess at what you already know and have already done in preparation. Please feel free to call me with any specific questions you have and I'll be happy to help you in any way that I can.
(910) 526-2273

fontana666

Thank you kindly. I will most likely call you Monday at some point.

Boyda

She must have had her first heat real early then, normally a first heat is around 6 months and then another 6 for the second, as most dogs have two to one per year. Cookies first heat was at 7-8 months and then her second was about the same time frame from her first 7-8 months. But nonetheless, good luck on the litter! Puppies are a ton of hard work but are worth it in my eyes.

BulliesofNC

Heat cycles vary within every dog. Usually it's around every 8 months. However, I have seen some older females go into heat as early as 6 months after their last and as late as 12 months after their last. I have never seen a female go into heat any sooner than 7 months of age. Typically first heat cycle would be from 7-12 months of age.
Surely this was her first heat cycle if she was 10 months old. Usually a female EBT that young that gives birth won't have the maturity to take care of her puppies. Often they are eaten by the mother when they are born. If a mother (regardless what age) is stressed, unhealthy, or feels she can not tend to all puppies she will eat one or two and possibly the entire litter over time.
Since she ended up giving birth by herself and most likely was not in a proper whelping box secluded to a room alone with proper temperature, she was most likely pretty stressed giving birth. Chances are likely that she had more than 2 puppies born as well.
Hopefully she's taken to both puppies by now and her stress level has minimized. If not, the chances of losing the remaining 2 puppies is high especially with another dog walking around the area.

fontana666

her first heat was at 6.5 months then again at 9.5 months.  she gave birth on my couch. i got home and saw my male on one end sleeping and my female had the cushion off on the other end with two pups.   not sure when a good time is to call you but i do have questions regarding her stress levels 

BulliesofNC

You're very lucky to have any puppies alive.
You can call me at any time. My phone is always on me.

fontana666

We'll I'm still on the fence about pulling the puppies away. I made the whelping box a hint more suitable for her. She is still not wanting to eat anything today. Tried chicken breast, cottage cheese, puppy food, chicken broth.

BONC_Jacksonville

Sometimes I get a female that gets really picky after giving birth.  I will give them 1 Caesar Savory Delight http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cesar-Savory-Delights-Canned-Dog-Food-Variety-Pack-3.5-oz-12-count-Dogs/23591053 and then one mixed with dry food.  Also my wife will cook some meat and do the same thing.  Isis love the sliced meat for fajita's, Karamel loves the regular steak.  After a couple days they will start eating better.  You can also try some GNC Below on her dry food.  If you do have to bottle feed you will have this on hand.  You will aslo need it when you are weaning them from momma.  It take about 2 days from GNC but Pet Smart does sell it.  You can also give me a call at 910-548-5204 (Craig) if you can not get hold of Steve.

GNC Pets Ultra Mega Premium Milk Replacer for Puppies

http://www.gnc.com/GNC-Pets-Ultra-Mega-Premium-Milk-Replacer-for-Puppies/product.jsp?productId=4448014

fontana666

So far in the past 38 hours she has had only 2 small chicken breasts and a tiny beef cut. Drinking normal amounts of water for a non nursing dog.

Had a rough night last night. One puppy died before the vet appointment. Mom is not making milk. I did how ever grab a big thing of formula for the one remaining puppy. The moms stress level has gone way down which is good. Haven't got much sleep at all the past 5 days as to be expected. I have an appointment tomorrow at the vet 11am. I'll do anything I can to save this pretty little pie eye. She stopped gaining weight. at around .77 pound. 5th day.

Thank you Craig. I may get ahold of you for some more questions

BulliesofNC

Sorry to hear about the loss of your puppy. I know how disappointed and sad you must feel but please realize there are many difficulties in raising Bull Terrier puppies that people don't realize and with your case the hazards have been greatly increased based on the age of the dame, proper whelping box, and your experience with whelping a litter of EBT puppies.
After speaking with you on the phone I know how much you're trying and doing everything you can to keep the puppies healthy and strong while trying your best to keep the momma stress free. Soon enough you may realize the dame doesn't have the maturity to look after the puppies in a fashion that will keep them healthy and safe.
You thing you need to realize is that the puppies (or puppy) are Very fragile and under weight. If the one puppy that is left is weighing in at .77 lbs at 5 days old she is very underweight. Actually this is about the weight of a puppy that is just born. With this said, she is even more delicate than any normal puppy born. If the momma isn't cleaning her and making her poop and pee she will get sick and pass away quickly as the first puppy did. You need to step in and do what the momma isn't capable of doing. i explained to you on the phone how to get them to defecate. This is vital. Proper body temperature, food comsumption, and defecating are the key factors you need to ensure are in place 24/7. The mother may not have the physical or mental capacity to balance these factors based on her maturity and stress level. If this is the case you need to make the decision whether or not to step in and take the puppy from her and hand raise it. this is not uncommon with the Bull Terrier breed. Based on the fact that you've already lost one my recommendation would be to hand raise the one puppy left and dedicate to all 3 facets mentioned earlier. Yes, it's a lot of work but if you can devote to it for 4 weeks until the puppy can start on mush (formula plus solid food) you'll be in the clear with a strong healthy puppy.
.77 pounds at 5 days old = very weak puppy and even with a mature seasoned momma the chances of survival for that puppy are minimal without your efforts. Call me if you need any assistance. I wish you lived closer because I'd be happy to hand raise her for you and get her weight and health to normal specs.

Xtracho

Praying for the little one. I know your heart must be breaking. But you could not have better mentors to assist you than Steve and Craig.

fontana666

thats true. steve has been kind enough to take his time in giving me pointers.and other crucial advice that i can take down the road.  this forum is fantastic and alot EBT owners would be up poop creek without it.

i got a long night ahead of me. tomorrow we go to the vet for tube feed if at all possible.  cross my fingers i can save her

exiled

Sending best wishes for Cookie and her puppy. 

BONC_Jacksonville

Hope the vet appointment goes well.  But that is a long time to wait for a tube feeding as that young should be every couple hours at minimum.  I hope you tried everything Steve told you.  It is so important for the Milk with Colostrum for the first 72 hours.  Just as important is the poop and peeing.  Please let us know.

fontana666

Vet went ok. I called Steve before they charged me for things I didn't need. The baby got a tube feeding, they gave me the tube feed kit and a tutorial on it, I also got a proper bottle with nipples. Mom is now hydrated and eating again. Baby is full and twitching. Puppy did get colostrum. Mama stopped making milk last night. She's so young and stressed but the vet said she is healthy. After the pups tube feeding I pooped and pissed her at the vet

I'm sacrificing work, money and relationships for this little girl. I'm doing everything in my power to keep her healthy, I'm hoping I have a 50 50 chance at least to save her. Also I was told and have been feeding her every two hours but Steve told me every 4 hours. I p

Soapskid

That's great to hear. Keep us updated so we know how healthy she will get. Have you named her yet?

BulliesofNC

Everything sounds good Ryan. Keep up the good work. If she isn't getting enough food with the bottle don't hesitate from tube feeding her into the stomach. Keep close tabs on food consumption. She should eating almost an ounce per feeding by now.

fontana666

Holy cow! This bottle is way better than the petco nursing kit. No name for her yet but She just drank a whole oz. and went potty...alot of potty. She's back to sleeping and twitching.

Is there any physical signs I should be looking for while she is in her box? She doesn't cry which is good. But overly crawling around? Or maybe weird noises coming from here mouth? Anything?

BulliesofNC

If she is resting and twitching like I described to you she is doing fine. I'm glad you listened and changed the bottles. Sounds like you're doing an excellent job.
If she letting out the slow weak cries at a constant rate she's not in trouble. Just keep her dry, warm, and fed. Continue with the cotton balls after feeding. You're on the right track now and she will make it if you continue your efforts.  :-bd
Please keep me updated. You've got me attached to her now.

Xtracho

Great news. My hat is off to you for dedicating yourself to this baby. I am following this with high hopes of seeing a foto of her and her new name!

fontana666

Thanks for the support. When it's feeding time I'll take a picture and post it. If i do name her it's going to start with a B. Traditional style. I put her on the scale this morning and she was .74 pounds and now she is .84. I will keep her updated on this post.

fontana666

Here's some pictures do the baby. Wouldn't you want to save her?! She is presh,.. And that's mama 2 weeks before birth...she is also a baby. She has had a rough week but is doing much much better now

BulliesofNC

She's a real cute Pup! Well worth all your efforts.

Xtracho

Wonderful looking little baby! Reminds me of someone I know...

fontana666

Hahaha. That's great! I wish I could meet all your bullies some day. I live in port Angeles Washington. A very small town 80 miles west of Seattle. Bullies are incredibly uncommon in the north west. I got my two bullies from Texas and Alabama. Other then three bullies I have now I have only seen 4 other bullies in person. Ranging from a little 40 pound girl to a 80 pound brindle male.

Xtracho

Went to Commercial Diving School on the Ballard Shipping Canal. Used to go to Anacortes and dive for the Dungeness. I miss Cold Rainier Beer and smoked smelt!

exiled

She's a cutie.  Continuing to send good thoughts your way and hoping she gets bigger and stronger every day.  

BONC_Jacksonville

She looks great.  You are on the right track.  Feeding/potty/dry/warm the 4 basics of puppies.  I have known someone that took the puppies to work when being bottle fed.  They had the luxury of it.  Not sure if you can though.  Time will fly so take it day by day and feeding by feeding.  These are moments you will cherish forever.  Our thoughts and prayers and phone numbers are with you.  

fontana666

Status update. Puppy is exactly knew week old today. Yesterday before I went to the vet she was .74 lbs. later that night she was .84. Around noon yesterday she let out a huge big time poop but so far she hasn't pooped since then just a bit of pee. I woke up for her first feeding today and tried to get her to potty for at least 10 or 15 mins but nothing.

Also I've never touched a baby bottle in my life let alone feed a baby pup with it. She isn't a fan but she is drinking from it. You can tell when she gets that sweet spot but other than that I've been super cautious feeding her. Making sure she gets an oz in her even if takes a while for her to drink it. I got the " low flow" nipple. I assume that's the smallest.

Another concern is noises she makes. Now I know a little bit is to be expected like Steve said. They are just week like grunts that last maybe 3 to 6 seconds then just back to sleep. But after losing one puppy and hearing those horrible noises I have to be careful. I'm doin what I can. I hope she puts on some weight today

BulliesofNC

You have to make sure she poops after every meal. It may take a while but don't let it back up or she'll weaken fast. Those low whines as she tried to sleep were most likely because she feels constipated. You'll know soon when she starts crying a lot more periodically. Make certain she poops after her next feeding.

fontana666

it seems like one of her nails is getting black and the pad is swelling. what are some suggested actions?

Boyda

Did she snag it on something? I would suggest attaching a photo for a better description, but I'm also not a vet so maybe a visit is in order too.

BulliesofNC

That's from her urine. You have to make sure her bedding stays dry. You're not using the the diaper pads I told you about are you? You get by with towels and blankets but they have to be dry if not her fingernails will get infected and her toes will balloon. It will go away in about a week. No meds needed.

fontana666

Shoot. I knew I was forgetting something, I have been using baby blankets. I change them out once a day. I did get a new heating pad though

fontana666

Do you mean these pads?

BulliesofNC

Those will work. I haven't used that type but should be the same. Walmart sells them too. Get the large sized ones and wrap one around the heating pad, set the pad on low, put a top on weening box, and keep it vented.

fontana666

ok. she is all set up. she is 8 days old isn't gaining much weight. only .85lbs today. thats horrible seeing as how her birth weight was .77. i have had to tube feed her twice. when  she drinks from the bottle it takes her forever and she only gets maybe a quarter oz.  she is also constipated. she always pees but it takes me 15min to cotton ball one tiny turd out. i know theres more. would syrup help summon more poop to come out?  and just making sure, steve you said 1oz of formula every 4 hours correct? 

also her foot is huge. at least twice as big as the other. purple with pus leaking from toe. i know you said it will clear up in a week but i feel tremendously bad for her. just want to make sure it doesn't get out of hand.  thanks 

Boyda

You need to take her to the vet immediately, if an infection sets in she won't be able to fight it and it will decrease her chance for survival.

Quinnofhearts

Would it be beneficial to give her to the vet permanently? I can definitely see you're trying very hard to save her, but she may need professional help at this point. I hope the best for her. 

BulliesofNC

Your description of her foot and nails in your first message didn't seem alarming. However, after reading your last post it's obvious she has an infection from the urine. Have her nails fallen out? 
Ryan I must say, it would be completely impossible for the puppy to be under one pound at 8 days old if you were feeding her even half of the appropriate amount of formula. There's just no way you could be feeding her .5 oz of formula every 4 hours and her not picking up weight. The math just doesn't add up.
I'm more worried about her current weight than I am about anything else. You may want to change the nipple you are using to one that allows slightly more milk out so the puppy has an easier time with productive suckling. Additionally, if she is constipated it can take up to 30 minutes to poop her. Don't give up after 15 minutes if she hasn't relieved herself.
I'm saddened because I thought for sure she'd be eating normally from the bottle, pooping normally, and have gained about a pound at this time. At her current weight she has to be very weak. My worry is that she might be a Zincer (LAD) Bull Terrier. Your Vet should be able to make that determination for you when you have her foot looked at.

fontana666

goin to vet in an hour. one of her nails is about to fall out. i have been feeding her every 4 hours up to an oz or at least .75 even if it takes me half an hour to do so. i got her pooping again 

BulliesofNC

Ask your Vet if he suspects Lethal Acrodermatitis, otherwise known as LAD or Zincer. Based on her weight, growth, nursing, and scabs on the feet she has many of the signs.

fontana666

yeah i was just reading up that. sounds horrible. this is pretty stressful.  

Boyda

How did your vet visit go? Hopefully well!

fontana666

Not too well...they charged me 40 bucks to get a syringe and take some pus out of her foot, then tell me she will most likely die. But we got home and I got her a new nipple and she drank and oz within 3 mins and she popes. All I can do is give her my best. Not going to take her there anymore. I just spent 240 bucks there 2 days ago for nothing much

BulliesofNC

Ryan, you're doing fine. Keep it up regardless what her size and condition is. She's 8 days old and giving it her all to survive. If you can get by another 6 days with her eating and pooping I promise you it will get better. The new nipple will help immensely. So far she's hasn't given up based on everything you've told me so if she isn't reacting the way I described on the phone then she's not in hot water yet. She's too cute to lose hope and drop your guard because others may be saying she's beyond help. She needs you. You can do this.

fontana666

well here we go again. tube fed 1 oz 

 and ive been trying to make her poop for an hour. Am i doing something wrong???  i don't get it. she use to go boom boom in 2min...any tips? different hand motions?

Xtracho

Screw that vet....all of us are pulling for you and the baby. Do not give up!

BulliesofNC

Just warm water and gentle strokes. If she didn't defecate on her last feeding just ensure she goes next time. Do you ever find any poop in her whelping box?

fontana666

She pooped before I went to bed at 5am. Took me over 2 hours off an on but I got it. She also pooped this morning. Very hard stool. No poop in the box