Electric Collars
philsergeant
Palm City, Florida, USA
I am looking at getting an Einstein ET800 collar for Marco. He is responsive to voice commands around the house and yard, but when he is off enjoying himself he just takes a message. I can't see managing correction without this. I have looked around the site and know there was some experience of electronic collars mentioned, but I can't find it. Does anyone have any experience of this model or could recommend a better one?
In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
Comments
I don't have much experience with them but I'm not at all opposed of their use for training.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
With that said I've tried the shock collar on myself and at low levels its merely a shock. A BT can probably take some of the highest levels but with proper direction. For small task a slight shock can work over a small amount of time. For big tasks at hand that you want to correct immediately and has high risk of hurting your BT, i.e. not getting aggressive at people/dogs or maybe avoiding a particular area then you will want to shock him with a good chance that it will scare him forever.
Using the shock collar varies and is a great tool if used properly. I've heard many people use this for quick fixes but I won't be using it until Spud is older and if its necessary. Right now I'm taking on the pack mentality with immediate corrections to instill trust with Spud and I. Ultimately that is what you want. I've seen people resort to the shock collar right off the back and that is another story where you can scare the bejesus out of your BT - which won't be good on building a proper trustful relationship over the long term.
Mike
There is a lot of negative connotation with the e-collar, but it's mainly from lack of education and knowledge about the products. My wife is always so weary about having the e-collar on when we're out in public because she doesn't want people to think we're cruel to our dog. People think it delivers some kind of electric shock like a taser or stun gun, however it's more like a TENS unit people use for rehab. It is like a muscle stimulator. I've attached it to myself and tested it numerous times. Yes, at the highest level, it is painful. But I rarely use it that high. Bull terriers do have a high pain threshold, so sometimes it is necessary to turn it up.
The e-collar we use has a vibrate function, then levels 1-7. The vibrate function isn't very useful though. I never use it. There are 3 buttons: low, medium, high. So essentially there are 21 different stimulation levels. When we first introduced the e-collar, it was for positive reinforcement. On level 1, we would press the button and praise our BT, just so she would associate that sensation with something positive. Then we started using it with commands. So we would say "sit" and press at the same time. During training, the e-collar is usually set on level 2 or 3. If your dog is really excited at the moment, sometimes it's necessary to go up on the intensity. I usually go up to a 4 or 5. There are numerous times when our dog is just really hyper, and I'm going up the level, and you can literally see her head/neck twitching from the stimulation, but she just doesn't care. That's bull terrier pain tolerance for you!
Eventually we started using the e-collar for negative things, such as chewing something she wasn't supposed to. For that, it's usually a 4 or 5 on medium or high. Just enough to make her know she's doing something she isn't supposed to be doing. I've gone up to a 5 with a medium press with the e-collar attached to my calf. That was when it actually hurt. My bull terrier's pain tolerance is so much higher.
Overall, I would recommend the e-collar to anyone trying to train a dog. It seriously has sped up training so much. It's very good at getting your dog's attention. The way our trainer describes it is as if you're petting your dog from a distance, which is very true. When our dog is playing with other dogs, that's the worst time to try to get her attention. She is very dog-driven in terms of playing. She wants to play with every dog regardless if the other dog wants to play with her. I can see her whole head twitching as I'm turning up the intensity on the e-collar and she just doesn't care.
The E-Collar works very well. I have only had to use it on 2 different Bullies. Lil Mac figured it out within in a week with a low setting, and Karamel for about 3 weeks. Anything short of electrocution (JK) she would just flinch and keep running. It was not about chasing dogs, chickens, cows it was about people walking down the road or out in thier yard. She was just so friendly she just had to go visit. Some bullies can be trained easily by voice command, some by collars and some need a little more. They are all different. Is that not why we love them so.
Im not opposed to E-collars, so long as they are used correctly-remember, its not about slapping one on and giving the dog a shock-you need to work on training a dog FIRST so that they understand WHY they are getting the shock coorection-otherwise you can cause a fear, or even an aggressive reaction.
shocking a dog for barking could potentially make a dog fearful of other dogs or people walking past, shocking a dog for getting into the trash bin could cause it to lash out and attack you because they feel they need to protect the trash bin.
so, make sure you teach a dog what you want FIRST, then give them a correction for not complying-that why they understand what is expected of them and what is not.
because-its not fair to correct a dog who doesn't fully understand WHATS expected of it.
that would be like someone shocking you everytime you said a certain word-they don't tell you what word, or even why your being shocked-so you become nervous of even speaking or moving trying to figure out WHY your being shocked!
the training will stick better when you teach the dog whats expected of them FIRST and THEN using corrections when they don't comply.
also note that-with shock colalrs you really do get what you pay for. buy a cheap collar and youll end up getting just that. expect to pay several hundred for a GOOD collar.
Dogtra Tritronics and sport dog are all wonderful brands-I have a sport dog and it is in its 2nd year of use-heat and cold resistant, waterproof,and weather proof.
even if your dog is not a water dog- make sure you get a waterproof collar and receiver because, I have had cheap collar that wasn't waterproof- dog drool on it and its dead.
don't even bother with anybrand that is for "pet training" go with a collar made for hunting dogs or working dogs-as those are built to last and take a beating.
pet training collars are not made to be used anywhere but a few minutes per day in your home. so they are not built to withstand high heat or cold, getting wet or dirty, getting knocked around or dropped, or chewed on.
my sport dog has been chomped on and is coverd in teeth marks from both Cesar and Chimera and has never given me problems.
also-a recharable battery is AWSOME! one that needs to have its batterys changed often die within a day or use and then you need to buy new batterys over and over again because it drains them.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Play noises during the day when she is playing with our lab/pointer.
There's lots of good input in this thread, just thought I'd double-check if there's more experience that people have had with brands since they last posted.
To dispell any experts' advise that neutering will reduce aggression, I offer the following story... When our kids are at the park, playing up to the boisterous level that we permit, they will sometimes "threaten" other dogs (because bullies are very confident dogs) and the other dogs will retaliate with aggression... On occasion our unfixed male will respond with aggression when attacked, but never unprovoked, and never to the degree that his spayed litter mate does. If some dog gets rough with her brother she totally takes over. Obvious we break this up in seconds and insist the the instigator leaves or is controlled by their owner. But being male and unfixed is not the cause in her case.
If, in the interim, there are times when the pack are going to be together unsupervised I would keep them apart until you can be sure to teach them all what acceptable behaviour is. If he attacks one of your other dogs, at six months you should be able to grab him by the back legs and lift him off the ground and whoever he is troubling.
Apollo busted out of a collar today and only ran across the street. Either way his little arse was grass! That e-collar was fully charged and we had a nice little training session in the yard! Needless to say he is butter on my biscuit! I worked on a few things in the instruction manual and did a few things I talked about with another bullie mom over the weekend!! He normally jumps all over the furniture and barks at me (or whoever is close). If I said anything he read it as "Game on" and would run around crazy like the devil! Today he tried it, I zapped him and said "no bark" and that was it. He looked at me funny but then just layed down. I was amazed! I havent had to go above 3 and it goes up to 8. My husband and I both tried it on 3 just to see. Both the collar and transmitter are rechargable and comes with adapter. It also comes with a second set of prongs. Water proof up to 25 ft. We found it at Tractor Supply for $140.00.
While there are many collars out there I actually seen this on our local paper and thought it was a good read.
http://www.jdnews.com/jdnewstream/who-s-walking-whom-the-scoop-on-no-pull-dog-walking-gear-1.310133
Craig, i think the writer of that article has never heard of the EBT. LMAO! On a serious note, my trainer friend says that the gentle leaders are indeed the best. She said a puller works best with those and the harness that attaches to the chest. She said dogs do no like being controlled from there and the head. I think dogs pull for both reasons stated in the article. I think they stiff and pull to get the info they need going on around them. They want to be aware of scents to better look after the pack. Becuase Apollo pulls to much now, we started working on "heel".....again. problem is, every single person in the house lets him do something defferent. It drives me NUTS!!! I always freak out. "I've trained him and you guys are untraining him" I say.
It had all the bell, whistles, and range I thought were important
The girls at work were furious so I charged it during the afternoon,
skimmed through the instructions, and shocked myself, progressing up a few lvls as I went
( this was a first in my white collar office i can assure you )
I'm 6'1 240 and like to play rough so I'm no stranger to random acts of pain.
Lvl 18 is maxed out, and when shocked in the neck, it gets your attention.
The goal for this long weekend was to get Chooba acclimated and responsive to it.
Major Fail.
I started really low, went through the beeping and vibrating options and he doesnt even notice.
I progressed to the shock lvl. @ lvl 18 he doesnt even blink. I can see his neck muscles flex so I know its making contact. But he just does his thing. When he finished he'll look over at me with that "Really ? "
look and give me a big bullie smile.
** face palm ***
Chip off the old block, God I luv this dog
As far a Garmin is concerned, I'm disappointed, I was going to buy that model.
A friend of mine is a board member at Garmin.... I'll tell him what you think.
Not sure its Garmins fault. I would like to think a "normal" dog would act differently. Like I said, I shocked myself in the neck at the same lvl.........it does get your attention and I can see Chooba's neck muscles flex as a reaction. He just doesnt care.
This model just gives a quick "poke". The next model up dishes it out in 3 second ( could be wrong on duration ) intervals. Should'v spent the extra $50 bucks for that model, once ur approx $220 in the hole whats the difference.
Going to call Garmin and see if I can trade this one in for the next model up.