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soa in an 11 month old puppy

My 11 month old Puppy Paddy had an incident where she got into a fight with a 4 month old puppy. There were no warning signs, they were playing and then all I heard was crying from the 4 month old. I ran to the fight and saw my paddy girl within a mm of killing this poor dog. Paddy's eye were glazed over and non responsive to my commands and actions of trying to seperate them. It was almost as if she was blacked out. My cousin kicked her in the ribs and twisted her neck off before the fight was finally broken apart. Within seconds of the fight ending Paddy was crying and trying to play with Milo the puppy whom she fought with. I have never encountered any aggresion towards other dogs before with her. She is a very anxious puppy with humans and strangers but never an animal. She is a very friendy dog who has many friends. She is now considered an aggresive dog who has to wear a basket mussle at all times :-(.........  The trainer whom im in constant contact with believes she may have SOA.... Can anyone give me advice on how to help her and see if this is the true cause of her issues ...

Comments

  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    edited June 2013
    I certainly hope Milo is okay, and feel badly for all involved, especially Paddy who obviously came her senses suddenly when she realized she had displeased you. What breed is Milo? And how bad were his/her injuries. There are others here more qualified to comment on the causes, what is SOA? But have these two spent much time together previously? Paddy has obviously never had such a spell previously, were there any treasures in evidence? Food, toys, comforts? I know this must be most distressing but she is young and this could be a one-and-only incident... Until you have a real clear diagnosis of what occurred I wouldn't muzzle her but have her on a leash every time another dogs are around... You don't want that to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I feel for you, it's most troubling but I pray it passes... ( I had a very docile EBT once, who, out of the clear blue, "attacked" a passing jogger, ripping his shirt.. I was more shocked than him... But she got severely reprimanded and never did anything like it again in her 15 year life)... Animal Control came and threatened to put her down because the jogger was a dick, but that's as bad as it got) . Hoping.
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • Omg I'm so sorry to hear that . That's good it never happened again ! And yes they have spent time together .. My cousin lives with us but is only here for a few days a week .. There were toys but they have never had an issue with them before... Milo is a sheppard and lab mix ... Paddy is a sheppard and English bull terrior mix .. So both are mouthy but unfortunatly no one was around until it was to late .. The injuries were pretty severe.. Milo suffered 2 staples and a glued neck paddy was 1 mm from her jugular .. Paddy only suffered from the blows of getting her off :-/ ... It's a very tough situation ... Her anxiety is through the roof with the muzzle on too :-(
  • It's funny because they are playing fine now .. Like I said before it was like she blacked out ..:-/
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    Sudden Onset Aggression (SOA) is most often diagnosed as a dog that mysteriously displays bouts of aggression and rage while sleeping or once woken from sleep. For informative information on SOA visit: http://www.btneuro.org/?page_id=24

    Due to the circumstance you described, Paddy sounds like she had an episode of pure dog aggression. It's very hard to say what caused it unless you had been watching closely to the two dogs prior to the fight. Regardless what triggered Patty there truly nothing that would warrant her attacking a 4 month old puppy. That was totally wrong and she should have been harshly reprimanded for her derogatory actions to the point where she knew there were going to be serious consequences for that type of behavior.
    Paddy is still a puppy herself and just coming into adulthood. Her harmones are changing a lot as well as her behavior. This is an important time of her life to socialize her well with other dogs and keep an eye on her to ensure she isn't showing any signs of aggression or dominant behavior. Often people that aren't familiar with dominant behavior don't even realize their dog is doing it. from time to time I see my Bullies doing it and put a stop to it. It can be anything from standing over a dog like they're hovering over them as to say I'm in control of you. A dog may even start humping another dog (regardless if they are male or female) as an act of dominance.
    The unfortunate thing about dog fights is that when a dog gets into a fight (with true aggression) it can have an impact on both dogs for a long time. Yes, they might be getting along great right now but I'd be keeping a close eye on her for a good while and correcting all actions she may display that show signs of dominance and/or aggression.
    How were the temperaments of her parents? How is Paddy with other dogs she isn't used to seeing on a daily basis? Does she interact with them appropriately or does she act wildly with them almost provoking them to get angered by her actions? 

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • Her parents are well tempered from what I'm told .. She does very well with other dogs . We started socializing her as soon as we got her with friends dogs and doggy day care .. As far as how she acts I've never noticed her provoking others.. If anything I've noticed milo provoking her :-/.... She does get reprimanded when she does wrong but I'm open to suggestions on how others reprimand their dogs in bad situations
  • Is there hope for her if this way aggresion ? She's is very young to be showing signs of this ... There was a suggestion that she may just not do well with smaller dogs but honestly she's only ever been gentle and happy to play with any dog
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    My reprimands probably aren't "politically correct" because if it were one of my Bullies I would have whacked her a couple good ones and put her in a room by herself for a couple of hours letting her know i was very displeased with her behavior. One thing is for sure about BT's, they get their feelings hurt very easily and because they are a breed of dog that truly tries hard to please their owners when they know something they do causes displeasure to their owners they will adjust. There's times when mine will start playing and rough housing like crazy maniacs while I'm watching TV or concentrating on something else and I'll yell "HEY" and my dogs stop in their tracks, part ways, and give me a look like their saying "Gee wiz, we were just playing. Sorry." A few seconds later they will slowly come back in the room creeping slowly to me just to make sure I still love them and will pet them and show them affection. They're just like little kids.
    Your 4 month old puppy Milo may be provoking Paddy like any puppy of her age but she isn't doing it in a fashion that's mistaken as dominating or aggressive. Paddy should naturally sense this without ever having an urge to attack a young puppy. If she has that capability with an innocent puppy she'd be more prong to doing it with an older dog especially one that showed true dominance towards her.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • Very true ... I am consulting a trainer that hopefully can help her with this behavior I really just don't want it to happen again for her and another dogs safety . She's to beautiful of a dog to have to get put down ... I really appreciate all your advice !
  • I am gonna guess this was an unsupervised quarell that turned bad. I wouldn't leave the two unsupervised anymore and the kicking I'm surprised didn't excellate the fight and resulted in further harm . Somewhere on here theirs a thread that talks about proper ways to break up a fight. I had a pit mix that when she was young would try to assert domanance with young puppies and got repremanded harshly for it, she with guidance and supervision became a super role model and a calmer dog. I never muzzeled but I was on her like a fly on shit when other dogs were around. It took a long while for her but she became a wonderful adult and was my heart for 14 years. You can get her thru this too!!!! Be assertive with clear boundaries and reprimands.....
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Funny Steve I use the "hey"!!!! Command to and it works like a charm!!!!! Those poor faces when their in trouble are heart wrenching sometimes though!!!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • As much as we all like to beilive our own dogs are not even capible of harming a fly, it does not
    at all sounds like SOA, but more like dog aggression.

    You must remember, for this breed to be succesful in its job-they HAD to be able to "block out"
    physical pain, sounds, owners touching them, smells and even food-dispite what
    posative only trainers would have you beilive-its not somthing that is easily broken up
    using a treat with some  praise or a choke chain.

    Your Paddy very much went into a  "red zone" and would very well of Killed that pup had she gotten
     the chance to.

    Im assuming the puppy was all over her, in her face, nipping playfully, trying to climb on her
    snapping playfuly at ehr ears, body blocking her off and on, chasing her.

    perhapes the pup bite down a little too hard and caused a reaction, perhapes the pup
    got up in Paddys face to try to be domineering and Paddy wasnt haveing it and reacted.

    dogs are like humans-we reflect how we are being treated- if your having a nice conversation with
    someone and suddenly they begin screaming at you and accusing you of somthing, well your going to begin
    yelling back, they hit you, you hit them ect ect.

    and also like people, sometimes other people can do or say things to us without intention that really
    pisses us off-ever see a guy get punched in the face for talking to another mans girlfreind?

    we all have our own threshholds on what we can and cannot take-same for dogs, some dogs
    just dont put up with it.

    and also remember, Bull Terriers are a domineering, pushy breed by nature, they dont appreciate
    being told what to do-THEY are the ones who tell everyone else what to do 9or so they think)

    had it been sudden onset aggression-she would have turned onto you or anyone else touching her or nearby
    she would not of selected the other dog over a human.


    And depsite the myth-truly aggressive dogs donot are if it is a puppy or a cat or an adult dog
    they WILL attack them if they feel the need to.

    same sex dog aggressive dogs are usually good natured towards puppies and only get pissy towards other intact males/females
    because they are competeing and htey feel no thret from puppies.

    Ask any purebred APBT owner and youll hear many stories of very stable temperd dogs attacking
    puppies because they are truly dog aggressive.


    And while we beilive that Bull Terriers are waterd down versions in everyway-the sad thing is
    that is not true, because in the Bull Terrier breeding world, dog aggression is very much accepted
    and breeders do not take that into account when chooseing a dog to breed/use as a stud other then
     will it be a natural mating or an AI?

    Even the famous westminster Winner Rufus's owners would not keep intact males in the house around him
    and he is thee embassidor for the breed!


    My advice is to learn Paddys threshhold because this WILL happen again, it is now become a learned behavior-Paddy has learned that
    she is able to release this newfound frustration and aggression-and she will do it again
    only the next time she will not wait as long to let it surface.


    And donot think this is somthing that can be "trained away" it can be MANAGED and thats it
    unless you are Cesar Millian with his facility.

     buy a break stick, learn how to use it properly, buy several and keep them handy whenever you go around other dogs.

    begin working your butt of teaching paddy leave it, focus, and desensitization around passing other dogs.

    excercise her as much as you both can, keep her active so at the end of the day she is too exhuasted to
    care about much.


    never, ever drop your guard thinking things are going well- while it may appear to be, never take
    your eyes off paddy around other dogs!


    im not saying she cant ever been around other dogs again-but im saying is-untill you know
    specifically what caused the attack-your going to have to keep your eyes peeled.

    i wish you the best of luck!

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