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This YouTube video annoys me.

this video annoys me so much especially people in the comment section. None of the dogs are natural from then and now. ALSO clearly they did not educate themselves on Bull Terriers either there are pure bloodlines from good breeders not every bully is from inbreeding and I RARELY ever hear about temperament issues.

Comments

  • edited December 2016
    Can't help it ... I feel like I'm missing a point here ...  :-?
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    Just another ignoramous ..... (who isn't confident enough to use a real voice but resorts to a cg one)... trying to make an impression but failing miserably by not addressing the real issues and skimming around a few side lights... Similar in stupidity to the "Spay & Neuter" morons that believe that not allowing dogs to reproduce will solve the ignorance and stupidity of man.  Dumb-arses.
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • edited December 2016
    I still don't get it or did you refer to the starter of this discussion here @philsergeant?

    As I see it in the video they only mention that the Bull Terrier looked a lot more different in the past and that the head has significantly changed its shape through selective breeding - which is true. Nothing about health issues regarding the Bull Terrier as far as I noticed in this video.

    It's a little different with the other breeds, such as the English Bulldog for example, where the narrator mentions significant health problems due to the massive breeding for a certain appearance - which again is true.
    Not even the title does in any way indicate that all breeds mentioned in the video are only listed because of health issues caused by selective breeding.
    Basically it says that the video is about how breeding changes appearance - which, I am repeating myself, is true. :)

    Actually I was so confused that I first felt like this discussion is meant to be some kind of advertising to get people to watch this video and push views or something.
    I did not even find the mentioned comment section to take a look at what other people say.

    So, again, I don't get the point. What in particular is so upsetting about that video?
  • What annoys me is that people think that inbreeding/improper breeding is what led to bull terriers being how they are today and that there head causes health problem like having a over amount of teeth (which i never heard of) and because of there egg shaped head also is the reason why they very temperamental apparently. Also people in the comment section don't realize that no dog is natural we humans how done so much to change dogs from the beginning of when we began to tame them and think it is so wrong to have a dog like a Bull Terrier.
  • "the Bull Terrier has changed a lot over the years do to seriously impaired breed, while breeders think they are making these dogs look better they don't realize the amount of damage they are doing to the dog. since the drastic change cause by improper breeding" this is what the guy said so I don't understand how you are confused lol
  • I think I am either seeing the wrong link or did not pay enough attention when watching the video. I can't even find a comment section, nor did I read or hear anybody saying that the shape of its head has any influence on the Bull Terrier's temperament.
    Anyways, if there are people saying such nonsense, they just don't know what they are talking about.
    In Germany breeds, such as the Bull Terrier were simply DECLARED to be dangerous and then banned from some areas and breeding them was prohibited and owners go through a hell of restrictions and pay tons of annual fees for the dogs.
    Back in Germany a man threatened to kill my dog, just because it's stigmatized as a "Kampfhund" and I dared walking her - ON LEASH! - in the woods.
    Those are the things I find unsettling.
  • WOOPS wow I apologize I didn't realize that the video was the wrong one this link will send you to the one I was talking about! I got confused because they have the same thumbnail. 
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    I wonder if these dogs [that have changed so? significantly] over the years have also increased somewhat or significantly in their self-opinionated-ness and arrogance?
    If so, they will be more easily matched with their human counterparts who have undisputedly "enhanced" themselves in that very negative manner during the last 100 years.
    I don't believe anyone can question the fact that, collectively, the human race has also deteriorated physically, "aesthetically" and performance/ capability-wise in the last 1/10th millennium.
    In the video, there was also no specific mention of the particular, collective or individual breeders that are/ were {deliberately?} responsible for the deterioration of dog breeds. Probably because these canine breeding "groups/ movements" are similarly difficult to isolate and identify, as would be the despicable "creators" of the meaningful human demise of the last century.
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    One of the things many people have a habit of doing is claiming a Canine Breed got messed up due to inbreeding and terrible breeding. Let's focus on the Bull Terrier breed for a second though. Yes, the appearance of the Bull Terrier has changed over the years just like many of breeds have. The appearance changes are due to the changes within the Breed Standard as certain aspects to every breed are more focused on. In the case of the Bull Terrier a lot of focus was, and still is, placed on the head shape. The changes per the Standard are developed by the serious advocates within the National Breed Clubs. They vote on these changes and agree upon them as something that complements the breed. Not everyone will agree on the changes but the wide majority will. These changes are considered to be improvements and you can bet the health and function of the dog were important factors. In my opinion the Bull Terrier Breed has had vast improvements over the years in both health and appearance. In truth, if we went back many years when the Bull Terrier was first introduced and owners were studying the Bull Terrier we see today they'd all be saying "How the hell are they getting so darn lucky litter after litter and not having any deaf puppies?" They might also be saying, "Wow, these Bull Terriers aren't all hyper and wildly dog aggressive." You might even hear them say, "Surprisingly their average life span is beyond 9 years."

    In regard to the current head shape (per the standard) the Bull Terrier has absolutely no health concerns by means of the head or muzzle shape and the teeth are aligned to a correct scissors bite and I have yet to see a Bull Terrier with a breathing problem.

    We do far more research on every subject today then we did way back when the Bull Terrier came into existence. Sadly, we have also been subjected to a lot more piss poor breeding from those that do NOT follow the guideline of the breed standard thus creating poor quality dogs which often have health issues. When comparing a breed from the past to its breed today the fair thing to do would be to utilize a dog that actually emulates the breed standard vice one which has been poorly bred.

    For those who have a passion for the Bull Terrier breed and genuinely know and understand the Breed Standards I can assure you there are far more people thankful about the way the Bull Terrier breed has progressed over the years. One thing you can't see from an old black and white photo of an ancient Bull Terrier is their character, loyalty, humor, intelligence, temperament, health, and overall personality. These are actually some of the most important characteristics about today's Bull Terriers in which people have fallen in love with. Unfortunately, these are not the hallmarks of the Bull Terrier of the past when they were lined up to fight against each other or be put in a pit for men to gamble on as they collected rats from the ring in a quick period of time without any distractions from the loud audience due to their hearing impairment.

    There will always be critics that claim things were better off left without changing a thing or looking to improve on faults. People say the same things about cars year after year but I must admit I'm happy that I'm not driving around in a 1930's FORD. But you can bet your bottom dollar that people will be quick to claim the cars were better built, safer,had thicker medal, etc.

    If you really want to go back in time and research some of the earlier breeds and do a little comparison dig up some information on the "White Terrier" which was used in the creation of the Bull Terrier breed. The breed is extinct now but why is that? Did people no longer want an aggressive deaf dog after the sport of rat herding lost it's luster and the Bully Breeds were dominating the dog fighting rings?

    I've seen some truly poorly bred Bull Terriers in today's world that have exaggerated heads, poor bites, bad bone structure and conformation, etc but I certainly do not consider these to be examples of today's Bull Terrier when they do not emulate the breed standard.

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    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • BulliesofNC I agree with everything you went over and said for sure! I know people don't always have the time to properly educate themselves about certain things like breeds, which is fine BUT when it comes to talking about a breed you really need to do your research and not just by searching on the computer but also talking to breeders and owners because making videos like theses and not having the proper education of a breed hurts the breeders, owners, and of course the most important the dogs themselves. 
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    Videos like this have little effect on those who actually know and respect the breed. The video was projected to criticize dog breeders within the country as if to say current efforts to produce puppies are getting worse and worse. This isn't the case at all and statistics prove this. It's also no surprise that the popularity with canine ownership has grown enormously over the years with a much larger population of dogs nation wide.  A lot more attention to proper breeding is being conducted now that ever before in the past. Yes, there will always be piss poor breeding conducted by irresponsible backyard breeders but this does not negate the fact that there are responsible breeders diligently producing puppies that emulate the qualities depicted within the breed standards.
    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    edited December 2016
    I believe the quality breeders (of which there are sufficient in quantity) should form a collective that advertises, wrong word, promotes!, the fact that there is a HUGE difference between quality breeders, BYB's and puppy mills, and what those differences mean..... This will cost Mega-bucks for national TV coverage, but it will greatly educate the masses {of good-meaning, but very ignorant } puppy buyers.... I am sure there are a multitude of quality dog food producers that would subsidize for alongside promotion.
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • edited December 2016
    Sadly, for all I know, not everything in that video - the second one - is completely untrue.
    I have been thinking much more differently about standards and breeding before I watched this BBC video a while back:
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

    To be honest this one documentary has changed my entire view on the matter of breeding and the high number of different dog breeds in general.
    Among other things one reason why I love the Bull Terrier breed so much, is because even despite some flaws, they still range among the dog breeds with the least health issues as long as their nutrition is of good quality and they get the exercise and attention they need.
    And their average life span is quite impressive.
    Their bodies do not have exaggerated features, besides the very characteristic head shape, which is not known to cause a lot of problems healthwise as far as I am informed.
    I know about the bite issues, kidney problems, deafness in whites and skin or allergy problems in Bull Terriers.

    Yet, still there are a lot of breeds that have really evolved into MUCH worse problems than this.
    Be it a sloped back causing massive hip problems, really short legs and an overly elongated body, causing joint problems, massive amounts of skin folds, inviting parasites and fungus in to cause chronic infection, or snouts that have been shortened by selective breeding to a point where the animal is hardly able to breathe properly anymore - much less run around and exercise without fainting.

    The sad thing about this is, it’s NOT only the backyard breeders, who are to blame for such developments. Many of those traits have been defined by kennel clubs as STANDARD and reputable breeders are doing their very best to produce individuals that meet exactly these standards.

    Really, the two most shocking examples in the mentioned documentary are the Chavalier and the Rhodesian Ridgeback.

    Chavaliers have been bred - FOLLOWING breed standards - to a point where a lot of individuals have skulls that are literally too small for the brain, causing them tremendous pain all of their short life long, according to that BBC documentary. They have been trying to interview an award winning breeder, whose dog has been decorated by the kennel clubs, about that very same award winning dog, who HAS that problem by birth. She just refused to talk about it.
    And obviously this issue is not considered “not standard”. Or why else would they pin a medal on a sick dog?

    And then there are the Rhodesian Ridgebacks. That ridge - according to the documentary is a GENETIC DEFECT (!!!!) that has been defined as standard by kennel clubs!!!
    This defect makes those dogs more prone to certain … I think I remember it was spinal infections or something. Sorry I can’t watch this documentary again to make sure. It really breaks my heart.
    Every now and then there are litters born including individuals, who don’t have the ridge.
    Those individuals - despite being LESS prone to the mentioned health problems and overall more healthy - are being excluded from breeding OR WORSE, because … yes, you guessed that right … because they don’t meet the breed standard.

    Long story short, when humans try to play god, even if medals, certificates and associations are involved, it’s sadly NOT always about health and the wellbeing of the individual.
    It is unspeakably sad, but also how it is in this world.
    Unfortunately, to MANY “reputable” breeders trying to win awards and accomplish something within “the community” and to some kennel clubs, looks come first, then comes health.

    And this is one point in which I must agree with the video that is upsetting the starter of this discussion so much:
    If breeding would solely be for good health, we would neither have SO many different breeds today, nor would so many of them be so ridden with health issues. And many dogs would probably still look a more like their ancestors.
    It is probably also true that breeding was able to eliminate some issues in certain breeds.
    But I feel like the majority of breeds today tells a different story.

    I LOVE dogs! And I am still standing behind the intentions of a reputable breeder, such as Steve is one in my opinion.
    He DOES care for health and it is his number one priority.
    What has changed for me is, who I categorize to be a “reputable breeder”. And also my view at kennel clubs and so-called “standards” has changed a lot.
    I am already hooked to the Bull Terrier breed and can hardly imagine to ever own another breed again, just because of their sweet personality.
    But today there are also a bunch of other reasons, why I would not want to own a Pug, an English Bulldog or a Basset Hound (my parent’s dog when I was a child), for example, even though I really like those breeds for their personalities AND their looks.
    Today I know that breeding has made the majority of these breeds impaired or sick. And nobody intends to change that, because the looks come first.
    And people keep doing it, creating even new breeds, such as the American Bullie, which almost instantly became “famous” for its health issues basically since this rather new breed has emerged.

    We as owners are indeed part of that game. Because if we do not make informed decisions, we inadvertently promote these developments. And there are not even backyard breeders necessary to “create” sick dogs.
    They are another story, another problem, that adds to everything.
    Some say that mutts are the most healthy dogs, much healthier than any pure bred. To be honest, I really cant’t tell, if this statement is true.

    But deep in my guts I know that mother nature is very well able to create the most beautiful creatures on earth and perfectly adapt them to their environments on her own. Sometimes this takes thousands of years.
    It is a privilege for mankind to “play god” and be able to choose, which animals are allowed to mate and “create” completely new breeds - over just a couple of generations. But I also think, while there are a lot of people actually accepting the responsibility that results from this privilege, some really don’t and cause a lot of suffering with it - award or no award.
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