is my puppy full breed?

Chema_15

Hey every one! I got this little pup 2 weeks ago I was told it was a full breed BT he is currently 8 weeks old. The thing is a friend of mine has one that's 12 weeks old and looks way different then mine, witch is making me hesitant about what I was told. I'll apritiate a lot if you guy can help me figure it out here are some pics of my pup.

Chema_15

Chema_15

Djammy

To me this looks like it could actually be a BT = Bull Terrier.

But on these pictures, especially no.1, to be honest he reminds me more of a Staffordshire Bull Terrier pup than an English Bull Terrier.

There's an offset between the top of the muzzle and the forehead. Many younger English Bull Terriers look a little like that and it grows out when they mature.

Because the actual face line of a matured English Bull Terrier's profile is very distinct and should almost look like a continuous slope from the top of the head down to the nose, ideally even slightly arched upwards, but not really dented.

Even if I am right with my assumption, I could still not tell, if he's pure bred or not.

But there are other people here, who are experts when it comes to such questions. I don't have the expertise.

Also I don't know, which kind of Bull Terrier you were actually looking for. Maybe you got exactly what you wanted.

Chema_15

Thanks for the info and the is my friends BT the one I was comparing it to, his 12 weeks old

Chema_15

erikashea

He's adorable as heck! But i don't think he looks pure bully either, i think he looks more like a pit bull. I also am no expert but as djammy said it's the indentation in the nose that makes me question it. Either way he's adorable!

Chema_15

Other thing when I got it I just saw the mom thn a week after I ask the guy about the dad and he sent me this pics but idk he might be lying I mean don't get me wrong I love him no matter if his pure or not just really got me thinking for that same reason about the head shape

Chema_15

Chema_15

This little guys are his brothers and sister

erikashea

This is bianca when she was 9 weeks. She didnt have a very strong head shape but you can see the difference.

Chema_15

philsergeant

@Chema_15 ...Unless you intend breeding yourself I wouldn't worry too much about it, It seems he has enough EBT in him to make a wonderful dog.  If someone charged you for a full bred EBT then I would definately take it up with them and ask for registration papers for the pup/ parents.  A Bullie's snout should be ideally convex, definitely straight, but never concave, in order to be considered full and properly bred.
The first, black puppy has a convex snout and it is shorter than an EBT's, but he sure is cute. The second, white one has the right length and is almost straight... so that one could be more debatable.

Chema_15

philsergeant

Shame that some breeders are not totally honest, I don't see any claims of "Pure Bred" or "English Bull Terrier" in their adverts.... But that why they are selling at $350... A pure bred EBT with papers would be more like $1200 at least..... They do use the word "Fullbreed" and that is really misleading... although the price is not... (Negotiable even)... I would make sure the puppy gets socialized really well early on because it seems it left it's litter really early... Is your friends puppy nearby?

Chema_15

Chema_15

Yeah actually my brother in law and his brother got a puppy 4 them selfs from the same litter

Chema_15

But again he did have a male available to mate with the female why would he breed her with other dog? You know what I mean here's another pic he sent me

philsergeant

I imagine it would be very difficult to determine exactly why, what where?  You never know whether those photos are from your litter, (I don't see your boy there), or whether that's the mother at all. Lot's of trickery on the web. That's one of the reasons that this website exists, so that people can find reputable dealers. The other problem is the "Full Breed" is not actually an English word, It just implies something and promises nothing.

BulliesofNC

Definitely NOT purebred.
You can tell by the shape of his head, muzzle, and even the color of his coat which is not standard color for a Black Brindle.

Take note also on the last photo you submitted with the litter mates with the dam. That one puppy with the black circles on his back clearly illustrates what Bull Terriers do NOT (or shouldn't) have which is colored markings on the body of a white Bull Terrier. White Bull Terriers should have no other color on them except on their face or head. Sometimes you'll see a poorly bred white bull terrier with a black marking on the rump or tail but this would be considered a serious fault. The puppy in your photo has 3 huge black circles on his back. Even that puppy shown sleeping on top of the momma has a big black marking on the side. Whoever took the photo may have tried to hide it with the blanket but it's still visible.

The eye color of a Bull Terrier should be Dark and piercing. These guys appear to have slightly lighter colored eyes as well.

Take a look at the mothers nose and muzzle and compare her features with that of the puppies and you'll note a completely different look. The mother has a long, slender nose with a slight slant and the puppies have thicker shorter muzzles more like that of another Bully breed like an APBT.

Your breeder may very well have had a male Bull Terrier on site but he's not the daddy. Bull Terriers are actually a lot more difficult to breed than other dog types. However, the breeder's APBT may not have had an problem breeding to this female EBT when she was in heat.

There's good reason why your puppy was not accompanied with AKC papers which I'm confident he wasn't. If you really want to know the details in regard to his genetic makeup AKC does offer DNA testing which will conclude his breed types.

Additionally, you won't find too many Bull Terriers listed as "$350 Negotiable." So if you paid $300 for him I think you got yourself a cute puppy that shares some of the Bull Terrier similarities we all cherish. I think he's a cute puppy regardless of his genetic makeup. 

Lui_Kane

We once helped adopt out a beautiful EBT, Zeus, and we had the honor of having him with us for a few months before he was adopted out. He was raised with doberman pinschers which is why I'm thinking his ears were cropped  =(( but he was a beautiful boy nonetheless. But if you notice his markings differ from other "black" English Bull Terriers, but he was a full breed.

philsergeant

@Lui_Kane ... He is a beautiful boy... I can't believe that someone would do that to his ears... Some people should just be shot.

BulliesofNC

@Lui_Kane - I'm curious as to what makes you believe that the color and markings on Zeus differ from other Black Brindle and White Bull Terriers. His color and markings actually look typical of an EBT that is Black Brindle and White.

Lui_Kane

By differ from others....I just meant that they all don't look the same that's all lol,  because in your first sentence you stated " even the color of his coat which is not standard color for a Black Brindle. " I mean I agree with you that the pup isn't a full EBT, just because of the muzzle, but I disagree about the coat. I would think that coat could easily pass on an EBT :-?

Chema_15

Here's a better pic of Thor from the side

Chema_15

BulliesofNC

Lui_Kane - For clarity in what I see that differs in proper color take another glance at the first photo illustrated which provides good lightening. Take note that the color is black with a reddish sheen to it. That reddish color is never seen within a Black Brindle. Bull Terriers that are Black Brindles have a completely Black coat with no hints of any reddish glow to it like this puppy has. Additionally, Black Brindles carry the gene which produce the brindle markings in the same spots that you'd see the Tan in a Black Tan and White Bull Terrier. There's no such thing as a solid Black Bull Terrier or a Black and White Bull Terrier. The Black brindles will always have brindle markings on the lower portion of their legs and slight brindling in the face. This puppy does not have these type of brindle markings at all. Hopefully this better explains the reasons as to why his color and markings are clearly not in harmony of that of a Black Brindle Bull Terrier.

BulliesofNC

Black Brindle and White:

Djammy

@Chema_15

He may not be 100% English Bull Terrier. But he is super cute and beautiful! And he will be a GREAT companion, if he gets the proper training, no matter which breeds may be combined in his DNA.
And like others already said before, he may even have some of the character traits of the EBT - which will require good leadership from you as the owner.

You've paid a fraction of what a genuine EBT usually costs. So, there's not a lot of damage.
The only lesson I would take out of this for the future is NOT to trust in sources like Craigslist, when looking for a puppy.

If the breed does not matter to you, adopt a rescue - there are SO many! And chances are that you may even get a pure bred! If breed matters A LOT to you, do your homework before buying, pick up more than 300 bucks and choose a puppy with proper AKC registration and everything from a responsible breeder with the standards of the breed in mind, such as Steve is one.

Chema_15

@Djammy yeah you're right!and thanks for the advice!

bulliebynature

He is beautiful but clearly not a purebred ebt. The nose should already have the distinct bulge and should flow into the nose. You can see this clearly in the first picture, there is a clear drop before the nose starts under the eyes, ebt's have no drop. His ears seem to much to the side of the head as well. But the most obvious for me besides the nose are the eyes, they need to be more triangular and darker in coloring. Ah well i have a mixed breed girl as well and she is very healthy and sweet .  

bulliebynature

Ok i made a mistake in the second sentence, i should have said: the head should already have the distinct bulge and should flow into the nose

Chema_15

Do you have a picture of her and what is she crossed with?

Chema_15

@bulliebynature

philsergeant

@bulliebynature .... If you make a mistake in your post you can always go back and edit it.... Next to the word "quote" on the right, hold your mouse and you can click "edit", or, if you really screwed up, you can hit, "delete"

bulliebynature

Ah ok now i see . thanks!

bulliebynature

Do you have a picture of her and what is she crossed with?

Look in the 'photos of members' section. I posted some pictures of her there. She was tought to be an amstaff, ebt mix but we had it tested and it turned out she was 75% ebt and 25% american bulldog (scott type or something, not to familiar with american bulldogs tbh). She acts like a bully however and she is more obedient... most of the time . 

Chema_15

Great good looking dogs! Question how did you know the persetage of the cross breed?

bulliebynature

It is possible to have this checked by an animal clinic. Often the breeds they think they are aren't correct. For example, they told us my female was an amstaff/ebt mix in the shelter. knowing many people with american stafforshire terriers i always felt this wasn't accurate. She hasn't got the character or fysical properties of an american staffordshire terrier. They are very similar to pitbulls, she clearly has nothing in common with the pitbull/amstaff. So we had her DNA checked out and i told you guys what mix she turned out to be, the 25% american bulldog means she had this type of bulldog 2 generations before her in her lineage, so 1 of her parents was a mix between ebt and ambull, the other was purebred ebt. I have to say, we paid 480 euro for these tests, they are very expensive. 

Also very interesting is the result of the inbreeding coefficient (COI), this should be as low as possible and should be on average around 14 or 15 % (for ebt's). Lower is of course better, higher means inbreeding in latest generations, above 25%? You should call the breeder if he didn't say the dog was a result from inbreeding - which is not always bad i have to say . 

The typical ebt has bulldog, terrier (english white and Manchester terrier) and greyhound blood. 

I posted some pictures of early fighting bull and terriers and the first ebt's with clear greyhound blood and the reduction of the stop. The 2 paintings show the fighting bull and terriers with staffordshire head, the actual older photo shows the greyhound influence and the start of the reduction of the stop, the top of the head is almost in line with the nose. 

 

Bob

Mine didn't look like this until he was about 3.5 months old.