Skip to content

Environmental Allergy Triggers




This is basically a question to the Floridians here in the forum - well, to be found at the bottom of this post :\">. But the story may also be interesting to other EBT owners.

About 4 - 6 weeks ago Djamila started to excessively lick and bite her feet. My first guess as the cause for this sudden change was that she may have dry skin from the frequent swims she took all summer long and even during the winter time in our pool, because we had not changed anything, neither her Merrick food, nor add-ons, treats or supplements in a long time and had no other idea what could be causing the itch.
Around that time the weather changed and it became too cold for her to swim in the pool. She does not like very cold water. So we started playing on our lawn a little more often and for longer times.


I am already keeping her feet clean and dry at all times, rinse her with clear water after the pool and routinely disinfect scrapes and scratches.
When she seemed to become more itchy, I intensified my measures, rubbed her with coconut oil and washed her feet several times a day with a disinfecting agent.
Despite everything things kept going south to the point that I became really afraid that I will not be able to avoid more inflammation and eventually the need for antibiotics and maybe even steroids.
I had watched her lick her feet for a moment occasionally in the past - I presume out of boredom. But that never lasted and never lead to injury. Nor did she really bite her feet. But during the last weeks she often twitched suddenly, reached for her feet as if triggered by a sudden itch and bit herself to the point of bleeding. That was new.
Hubby and I started to think about a strategy, because clearly, here we were again, with another itchy and allergic dog. We knew that all too well from our last dog Fancy. We decided as a first step to switch to a different detergent for sensitive skin and without allergens for her bedding, but that did not bring much of improvement.
Then we tried and avoided the next most obvious trigger - our own lawn.
She had been playing a lot on that grass during the last few weeks.
She had first developed some minor bumps on her back, which is an odd place and does not necessarily lead to assuming that something on the ground could be the trigger. Shortly after that her feet started to become itchy and just two weeks ago or so eventually bumps on her belly started to appear.
Our last EBT Fancy had suffered awfully from allergies and we had always suspected our lawn, but were never 100% sure.
Vets had pointed at the nutrition and suspected food allergies. And after food switches and a round of steroids and antibiotics things always improved for a short amount of time until the symptoms came back. Somehow the course of the events never showed an unmistakeable connection between the lawn and the allergies.
Also we rent and included is the pest control, so basically we do not know what they put on that grass, nor are we landscaping experts, knowing every plant and weed. If the itch had continued in Djamila, we would have stated to rule out one ingredient of her nutrition after the other - always one at a time. But it did not come to that point.

Because, well, what can I say, after only one week of not changing anything with the exception of NOT letting her even touch our lawn, her feet have improved and healed and she is no longer itchy.

For now it truly looks like we have identified the culprit.

I keep rubbing her with coconut oil and have temporarily increased her omega 3 intake (fish oil) as a natural moisturizer and to support the healing process.
The licking and the sudden twitching and biting has completely stopped.
The coconut oil rubs did and do a great job in the healing process from the outside. And I am really relieved, because for now we seem to have found the trigger. Still having a hard time to really believe that the solution seems to be so easy. Well, kind of easy, because it is not fun to not be able to let her play on our own lawn. Especially because all of the wild meadows in our neighborhood are infested with fire ants and spiky plant parts that really hurt her feet. So, for now we do not exactly have any good options for some exercise in our closer neighborhood.
I am really looking forward to swim season now. :)

I am very convinced that - while it was not a nutritional problem in the first place - nutrition and a healthy immune system plus addressing the issue early were the key factors to this not becoming a serious problem.
Our last dog Fancy was on a much lower quality diet, because I just did not know better back then. If I had known at that time about the huge impact of nutrition, I would have done a ton of things differently back then already.

So, this is my first message to everyone still wondering, if it really make any difference if I spend $20 a week on my dog's nutrition vs. $20 a month - IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Because good nutrition will probably save you a ton of vet bills over the dog’s life and save your dog a lot of suffering.
A good nutritional basis with high quality food, nutrients and supplements helps your dog’s body to deal better with disease and external influences.Many things that affect our body are closely connected to our digestive system, true for humans and animals, although this connection is not always obvious. We are what we eat. If we only eat unhealthy, we will be unhealthy.

Of course, the price is only one indicator, but not a guarantee for the quality of a food. “More expensive" does not automatically equal "high quality”, as well as “cheap” does not always equal "low quality" in terms of food. It is important to do your homework, research, ask questions. Only do not just believe in what the commercials promise or just grab a bag from the shelf at the grocery store, because that is most likely the food your dog should not eat. Most grocery stores only carry the mainstream commercial rubbish. The other day it struck me that on the rare occasions I watch TV I have never ever seen one commercial of the really good and trustworthy brands. No clue, why that is the case. "But what about Blue Buffalo?", you may counter now. Actually I do no longer consider them a trustworthy brand.

Here, finally, is my question to the Floridians:
Has anyone in SW Florida witnessed the same phenomenon of allergies during the winter season? I am still trying to figure out, if I am dealing with something general here such as the chemicals they use for pest control on our lawn. Maybe Djamila’s body has just tolerated that in the past to the point of breakouts that occurred now.
Or alternatively could this have something to do with the weeds on cultivated grass? Because on the wild meadows besides ants and spiky plants she can walk without problems. So the issue does definitely concern especially our grass.
The next thing to consider is, if this is something seasonal. It is very hard to tell from Djamila for now. I know she had some bumps last year around the same time. But by far not as bad as it was this time.
Fancy also always experienced the worst problems starting around Christmas, then lasting until spring. So, with the second dog showing the same pattern, that really got me thinking.

Still happy to have found a solution without the need of harsh medication. Although doggie really doesn’t understand why she is no longer allowed to play on our lawn. I guess for her birthday Djamila will get some neat doggie boots, so she can have fun again and chase after balls on those wild meadows around here without hurting her feet.
Hope anyone reads through this long post until the end and maybe has some input regarding the Floridan vegetation for me. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    There must be something really unique to the grass over there in Florida because I have heard so many others in the past having skin and allergy issues that related to the Florida grass.

    This has got to be a very difficult thing to determine if the EBT was never tested by a specialist to pinpoint the elements which are causing the skin issues. I would also imagine that there are plenty of other Bull Terriers in Florida (or anywhere else) that have the genetics which prove to be stronger in the aspects of immunity. Those EBT's with naturally stronger immune systems may never show any type of negative reactions to grass, grain, pollen, mites, insects, etc which lead the owners with the opinion that the grass or anything else has an ill effect on a Bull Terriers skin and coat.

    As you already know, not all Bull Terriers are as resilient as others when it comes to substances affecting their skin and overall health. Some require a lot more efforts to maintain simply due to their genetics. Having raised many as well as fostering many rescues it's become very apparent how delicate some Bull Terriers can be when it comes to certain things affecting their skin more than it truly should even when they are provided the same nutritional diet, exercise regiment, and living in the same environment.




    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited February 2016
    Well, I too believe that genetics may play a role.
    But it is really astonishing how often today I read about allergy problems in dogs on the internet - by far not only Bull Terriers. This seems to be epidemic. And I just can't believe that this is all just genetics. If so, humans should stop breeding dogs all together instantly!

    Kidding, of course!

    I think that different factors are contributing to the problem:
    1. Fragile genetic profiles caused for example by excessive inbreeding and/ or breeding without health testing and without exclusion of unqualified individuals
    2. Suppressed or weak immune responses caused by continuously lowering quality in processed foods, unhealthy add-ons (fillers, flavor enhancers etc.) on the one hand and "empty" oder unsuitable ingredients in too large amounts, such as highly processed corn etc.
    In addition second hand “poisons” in our foods (steroids, antibiotics and other meds used on the productive livestock
    3. Increasing exposure to environmental poisons (in our air, waters and on the ground), in detergents etc.

    Except no. 1, all of this shockingly reminds of the problems humans are experiencing also ….
    Allergies and Asthma problems increase every year.

    I am still not sure, if genetics in the dog is the only factor to blame for the problems we are experiencing. Although on the other hand I cannot completely exclude this as a contributing factor.

    Like I said before, I really don't know what they spray on our grass for pest control.
    I can imagine that reactions to poisons used for that purpose probably occur much more often in areas like Florida - probably not only in dogs, but also older people and kids - all of those with fragile immune systems.
    In such a warm, tropical area, pest control is part of everyday life to an extend that is probably unknown to people who live in cooler areas. Not only do we have the poisons on our lawn, but also in and around the house or we will have to share the house with roaches and friends.
    And although manufacturers claim that their poisons are safe for pets and kids, I honestly have my doubts.
    Our last dog Fancy came from a very reputable breeder and had originally been bred for showing - meaning that I am pretty sure that health testing and reasonable breeding were involved. The only flaw that led to her being excluded from shows was a tooth malposition, which is a no-go for show dogs in Germany. Of course, even health testing is never a 100% guarantee that nature can decide to just go different ways.

    But, actually, looking back at her history with us and all of her ailments and problems, and looking at everything I have learned in the meantime, today I strongly believe that environment and her nutrition were the major factors, not her genetics. Not saying that genetics did not play ANY role. But I think that the other factors had much more negative impact.
    And owning the second dog on the same property from a completely different litter, yet showing the same problems now, only reinforces this feeling.
    I now see the huge difference in nutrition, which for the first time in Djamila really got the chance to prove how much it supports her immune system and helps her fight off such things better than Fancy's immune system could back then (being on a much lower quality nutrition), even under the continued exposure Djamila experienced during the last weeks.

    I would be so curious to know, if we are dealing with a plant problem or poisons. But you are probably right, it will likely remain a guessing game without a real allergy test.
    Or unless someone steps up here, confirming the issue and knowing what causes it in Florida.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    I hope my response wasn't misconstrued for presenting my thoughts as if the ONLY causes of skin allergies were those of genetic fault. I had to reread my response to see if I was misleading in my response but didn't see any evidence of it.

    I will agree there are many factors that can cause skin issues within the Bull Terrier breed as well as many other breeds. However, I'm a firm believer that there are a preponderance amount of people questioning every aspect of nutrition, chemicals, grass, pollen, shampoos, etc in the hopes of finding out what the cause of the problem is that is effecting their Bull Terrier in a negative fashion. Often there are underlining factors that will effect a dog which will cause adverse reactions resulting with skin issues. The true true question is, "Should these elements be causing such reactions?"

    Why is it that many other Bull Terrier owners carry on raising their Bullie without even knowing that other owners fight tooth in nail with maintaining a healthy coat free from skin issues? What if all these dogs were put into the same exact environment, fed the same diet, and provided the same exercise and attention? How could it be that only a few Bull Terriers suffered from skin issues while others sown no signs of ill reaction? These are questions I ask myself when fostering Bull Terriers we've rescued which came to me with skin problems. I can often health these BT's into a decent condition prior to them being adopted and make huge strides of improvement with their skin compared to how they were when I received them but there's no question they require far more attention than what I would ever consider to be "normal."  I have many older BT's with severe skin issues that I knew would spend the rest of their lives battling skin issues due to several allergies which were almost unavoidable. Getting these type of Bull Terriers looking as if they never had a skin problem would be near impossible due to their immune system being so weak.

    Conducting appropriate allergy tests by a specialist is a great idea for any Bull Terrier owner fighting hard to control the skin issues that plaque their dog even if they come and go or seem seasonal. The tests can at least pin point the elements that are causing the reactions which can therefor be avoided in the future. There's no question there are a high percentage of Bull Terriers which are susceptible to having skin issues from allergic reactions but I probably tend more to blaming the genetics of the dog than I do the element causing the reaction.

    When I'm outside in the summer I burn 10 times more than the average person. My skin reacts to the sun quickly with adverse reaction. Over the years I've learned not to blame the sun but admit the cause is genetics. My mother (originally from Ireland with fair skin) has the same issues - go figure. I use this as an example only because I have learned over the years the many differences I see within different bloodlines of the Bull Terrier breed. I have also learned what a huge impact a strong immune system makes within the Bull Terrier breed. It's often the difference of one person striving to get to the root cause of their Bull Terrier's skin issues and another owner not realizing some Bull Terriers have skin issues.

    On a good note, I'm thankful we have the technology now that allows us to take advantage of the sophisticated allergy tests available for dogs which are conducted by specialists with the proper equipment and knowledge. Many have benefited greatly by finding out exactly what causes negative reactions with their Bull Terriers and are able to completed avoid these elements and allowing their Bull Terrier to look their best throughout the year. It also allows them to provide their Bull Terrier changes within their diet without fear of causing problems.

    The Bull Terrier is an awesome breed (the best in my opinion) but there's no question many carry the genetics which prove to have weaker than average immune systems which make them vulnerable to skin disorder. The only thing we can do to improve the statistics is to recognize the problem and breed appropriately in the future with not only genetically tested dogs but those who carry strong immune systems which are not easily affected by elements that should have no effect on them. Sadly, no breeders are conducting allergy tests as part of their normal genetic health testing. With this said, it is up to the integrity of breeders to understand whether or not the Bull Terriers they intend to breed are not susceptible to skin issues regardless if they have proof of BAER testing, kidney tests, PLL, Heart Doppler tests, etc. Skin issues seem to be the number one health concern with the Bull Terrier breed and there's no question the white Bull Terriers suffer more from this issue than the colored Bull Terriers.



    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited February 2016
    I hope my response wasn't misconstrued for presenting my thoughts as if the ONLY causes of skin allergies were those of genetic fault. I had to reread my response to see if I was misleading in my response but didn't see any evidence of it. 

    Steve, it wasn't.

    I was just allowing my thoughts to flow and wrote down the things that came to my mind. We are pretty much on the same page here with everything, I believe.
    I am sure that there are even more factors involved when it comes to the stability of the immune system that we have not even touched already. I am thinking about the hormonal situation after spaying here, for example. Or the highly discussed possible effects of overvaccinating. But that is all really complex and depends on so many different factors. And the effects are so different in every individual.

    When we were looking for our first Bull Terrier almost 20 years ago, the first information we stumbled upon was that skin issues were supposed to be a common problem within this breed.
    So, back then that already had been noticed in the breed.
    At that time we had no idea, how much this can effect the entire health state of the pet. We thought, well, everybody has a pimple or a scratch now an then, right? Boy were we wrong.
    When reading about different breeds, every breed has their special health issues - meaning diseases that occur comparatively often within the breed, such as kidney or heart problems, hip dysplasia, patellar luxation, skin issues and allergies etc.

    Compared to heart conditions or kidney problems we considered skin issues a minor thing. Especially because back then Bull Terriers had always been advertised as one of the most healthy breeds, because of the relatively balanced ratio between the size of their body and their inner organs, as well as the absence of forced overbreeding of certain physical characteristics in order to “design” certain shapes within the breed.

    Well, although we were wrong about the skin issues, Bull Terriers indeed may still be one of the most healthy breeds. This is something I just can’t judge with only two of those dogs in my life so far and one of them not even three years old already.
    I guess your experience of decades as a breeder is much more reliable in this regard.
    At least in the 2 1/2 years Djamila is living with us this was the first major issue and luckily manageable without harsh medication. I am really glad, because even though we have to deal with skin issues again this time, (at least for now) things are working out so differently from the situation we’ve had with Fancy before.

    I do agree that allergies today should be part of the tests before breeding dogs. Just because their impact can be so extensive.

    I tried to find out on the internet, how much I would have to spend on allergy testing in Djamila, just in case things go south again and time reveals that we are not really through with that allergy story by just excluding our lawn.

    I found prices around $250 for a skin test and about the same for blood testing.
    That is at least a little less than I had expected.
    I am curious: Which kind of tests do you use and what is the difference?
    I know that in the past back in Germany they have been using something called a “Prick Test” to test for allergies on the skin in humans. In that test they basically slightly slit the first layer of the skin and introduce different allergens, watching the skin reacting afterwards with redness/ swelling or no response.
    Are you doing something similar on the dogs?
    How does the blood test work? Is that a test for antibodies?
    Which one of the two methods has proven to be more reliable? Or is it just advisable to do both?

    Uh, something I almost forgot that points at the poison they put on our lawn as a trigger even more is this story:
    A few weeks ago Djamila vomited on isolated occasions after waking up in the morning. Just a very small amount of gall contents and a few stems of grass!!! Other than that she seemed completely fine.
    As I remember it always occurred after she had been on the lawn the day before and had swallowed some of the grass during play. But it did not happen every time, which made it hard again to connect the dots.

    This was something that also caught our attention and we were about to have her checked by the vet to make sure that everything is ok with her digestive system and that she has not ingested something unnoticed that her body is now trying to get rid of.
    We could not think of anything she could have ingested accidentally and also the vomiting occurred only irregularly, so we were still just watching it closely.

    Now after she has not touched the grass in over a week also no vomiting anymore.
  • We got our first BT (William) in Northern Illinois.  He developed heartbreaking allergies on his feet, the worst I've ever seen.

    When we moved to Central Florida, the allergies stopped *like that.*


    Now I have Katie, also from N. Illinois.  You can guess what happened - started out with no allergies, now she has them.

    I have never ever used a lawn treatment of any kind, and she's been on her food for years and years.  Yet she's now on a sulfa to stop little blisters around her mouth that pop and bleed. 

    I don't know what it is, because the last time she needed treatment was in October.  It's now February, 4 months later.  Is it seasonal? 
  • edited February 2016
    It was hard to tell for sure at that time back then, because Fancy had to fight so many different things.
    We always had our guesses and assumptions. But it was never really clear at that time.

    Looking back now from a distance the way the allergies in Fancy appeared in the past, that actually indicated that it may as well have been something seasonal. She always had minor issues year round.
    But during the last years of her life which she spent here in Florida we could almost WAIT for her to become due for a round of steroids/ antibiotics, because of serious inflammation from licking and biting herself always at the same time around christmas. And the situation would last until spring.
    She had also shown signs of skin issues before back in Germany already, just not that bad.

    Djamila has spent all of her life so far in Florida (except her first 9 weeks in her birth litter in Arizona) and now developed the first real symptoms shortly before turning three years old. I remember one minor flare up of bumps on her body last year around the same time. But that was more like a little rash that hardly required any special attention or treatment and had vanished soon.

    How old is your girl and how old was she when the first symptoms of allergies appeared?
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited February 2016
    Steve, thank you for the link. Interesting similarities. This lead me to just Google "Bull Terrier Allergies Grass". It's overwhelming to see all of those stories of Bull Terriers suffering from allergy problems/ skin issues popping up. And even more interesting that there are quite a few among them allergic to grass.

    If you find the time, would you mind sharing some details here about the allergy testing you are doing on your dogs? I don't know, if you saw my question above, I am always writing so much.
    I would really love to know more about the differences between blood and skin test - which one is better, if that's even possible to tell ...

    Djamila is fine for now. On her hind legs I can see that the licking has altered her skin a little. But she is still all clear now. I keep using the coconut oil. Big fan now! This stuff is awesome!

    Also I have ordered boots for her - the ones and only Ruffwear (everything else I know is cheaper, yet still not worth the money). It will be funny to get her used to them. I hope the investment is worth it and we can go play again in the area here. I will however continue to avoid our lawn, because I think protecting her paws alone will not help with that particular situation on our lawn.

    I also did a little more research on dog foods, especially kibble. Still think that her slightly elevated yeast level - which is well under control currently - could add to problems during times when she is dealing with other skin issues, because it likely affects her immune system.
    I was looking for a kibble that does neither contain white or sweet potato nor rice. It is close to impossible to find such a kibble. But luckily Orijen is such an alternative. Another one of course would be feeding completely raw. For now I will leave her on the Merrick food in addition to the raw food she is eating, because it does not seem to contribute to or cause any problems. We had already tried feeding completely raw for a while and even this did not make the brown on her nails/ other signs of yeast overgrowth disappear.
    I try not to change everything all the time or all at once. Just want to know about my options to be able to react quickly in case allergies/ itch/ inflammation strike.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    @Djammy - Allergy tests are actually not part of the recommended genetic testing for Bull Terriers. Tests like the Intradermal allergy tests which is a specific test utilized
    to test dogs to see if they have any allergic reactions which cause skin
    problems and itching. This is an extensive test averaging 1 hour at
    which time the dog is sedated and receives 60 injections made into the
    skin. This kind of a test would not be one in which you'd want to have conducted just to say your Bull Terrier was free from allergies. I have yet to own a Bull Terrier that warranted an allergy test. Although I have rescued several Bull Terriers that had skin issues I've been fortunate to being successful with managing their skin problems through proper diet, immune system supplement, and plenty of exercise. However, I did have a older Bull Terrier that I was fostering which had a really bad skin problem that I was able to improve and maintain but the scarring he had on his legs and feet would never recover with hair due to how long he had the skin problem with obvious little intervention.
    I have heard from several people who resorted to having their Bull Terrier tested for allergies after endless attempts to remedy the problem on their own with no success. Actually there was a couple members of this Forum who also had an allergy test conducted on their Bull Terrier which proved to be very successful in identifying all the elements which negatively affected their dog. It amazes me that they are able to pin point all the elements which cause reactions creating a good sense of what to avoid in the future in order to keep their Bull Terrier healthy and free from skin problems.

    The visual yeast build up that can be seen within the base of a Bull Terriers nails is something I too cannot completely control on a couple of my Bullies. Even with the same diet, exercise, environment, and attention it's odd that I can have some Bullies with perfectly white nails while a couple others show that maroon looking yeast collection in their nails. Nitro has this and I did everything imaginable in order to try and rid it but failed to successfully accomplish it. On a good note the yeast in his system never got out of hand where it showed up on his paws causing licking, redness, or anything else and he never had any sort of ear infection. If it wasn't for his nails you'd never imagine him to be fostering an ounce of yeast within his system.
    The other day I was looking at one of Phils photos he posted of his two Bullies and couldn't help notice how perfect his Bullies nails are. Those two guys have absolutely zero yeast in their system and from what I understand the state of Florida has a very high statistic for causing unknown skin issues with Bull Terriers. It may very well be something seasonal causing it in that geographic area. I honestly think there is a common factor which many Bull Terriers share that affects them to the point where the skin just can't handle it. It would be nice if more people invested into having their Bull Terrier allergy tested and shared the results in some kind of database where research could be done when comparing multiple Bull Terriers. Even the members of this Forum who resorted to getting their Bull Terrier allergy tested were members that posted often in regard to their dilemma with skin problems. One or two of them reported back with the listing of things that their Bull Terrier had allergic reactions to. I recall being shocked that chicken was on the list for one of them.  Anyhow, they were very happy to report an immediate improvement with their Bull Terriers once they learned what to avoid. On a sad note, once their problem was resolved so was their need to continue communicating on this forum. Well, at least the allergy test proved to be rewarding for them and the Bull Terriers ended their crusade of skin problems.




    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited February 2016
    Steve thank you for that long reply. I also would love such a data base or just more intense exchange about those things. Because I think it would be easier to recognize patterns etc. and react appropriately.

    That is also why I love to share updates and follow-ups.
    It's funny, just the other day I envied those flawless nails of Marco and Isabella. Phil's dogs look perfect indeed.
    For some time I thought that there may be a connection between the yeast and the climate here. But that is obviously not the case. I am not that nervous about yeast growth anymore, because I have the feeling of being ahead of it. Still it's odd how different it is in different dogs - that is so true.

    Another funny thing: To my knowledge chicken actually is a pretty well known possible allergy trigger in many dogs and known to be able to cause an upset stomach. I know that chicken usually is considered a very light and highly digestible food.
    Well, but everything's different when it comes to allergies. I was actually already looking for a kibble without chicken, just to be on the safe side had it come to an exclusion diet for Djamila in response to the problems she had experienced lately. But it is close to impossible to find some. Most kibbles have mixed protein sources. Merrick offers one limited ingredient variety ... wiiiiith ... chicken :)
    Ok, for now that's nothing to worry about, because I think the food is not our problem.
    Still funny, the things you find out when you start scratching the surface.

    I was hoping for some more input especially from Florida residents here, will continue to share my own observations. For now - luckily - there's not much to report, because the problem has ceased with avoiding the lawn. Still can't believe this. We had suspected it for so long, even when Fancy was still alive.
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    edited February 2016
    I have read all these looooong threads and have not wanted to respond with a short note and am impressed by the dedication of the researchers trying to perfect their quest for a perfectly happy Bullie. I'll share an account of our last year of struggles and our surprising result. Our result may, in specific, not be a solution for others, in FL or not, but it may trigger some thoughts with a new dimension. I'd say for the last two years, but most specifically 2015 we have striven to get our kids coats, nails and ears perfect. We have almost perfected their food intake by eliminating potato and sweet potato, grain naturally, and getting the ideal blend of cooked meats, raw and kibble.  Through this process we have still been having mild breakouts of hives with associated spotty hair loss, and struggled to find out why, whether other factors than food were involved. This led to other food tweaks that have all "helped" in general conditions. I admit that that this last summer they both put on an extra 5 unneeded pounds because we reduced the amount of romping and playing in the Florida "swamp", thinking that this may be the unwanted influence causing the outbreaks.   Now, I must share an incident from 3 months back.... Isabella suddenly "showed up" with her entire tail covered in sticky, half dry "goo"... Thinking that I would wash it out the next day on her scheduled bath day I left it only to find that she "must have sat in glue, or sap"? in the woods or on her weekly Home Depot trip because it was now stiff as epoxy. Under the goo her skin was obviously rotting and, long story short, she had to get knocked out, her entire tail shaved, tons of antibiotics, complete wrap, nightmare... but now it's 80% healed.... (there's a reason for telling this story, later).... Now, last weekend I was looking Marco over and thinking that it was going to be hard to get his coat any better looking, it was thick, shiny, blemish free,... in all ways perfect, and I was contemplating how to improve upon his "dry knuckles", getting them softened on his hind elbows. I believe I have their food DOWN! Isabella's skin is great too, (except for dry knuckles).... THEN, Thursday morning, Marco wakes up with a 3" diameter completely wet, sticky patch on his shoulder. Blood tinged GOO! Remembering how Isa's goo dried hard, I washed it out and by Friday morning, although I was keeping it clean and mopped out, it had grown to about a 8" diameter area. (See photo). Then the penny dropped!!!.... On Wednesday they had been given their heartworm medication (Sentinel Spectrum). Now they are always VERY ill the day after that tablet, they are listless, occasionally vomit, won't eat etc.  But this outbreak motivated online research which led us to inevitable reports of hundreds of other users who had had bad to worse reactions.  So we checked the date of Isabella's incident/ surgery, and sure enough it was not goo, not Home Depot, but the day after she had her LAST Sentinel tablet. I am TOTALLY convinced that the Sentinel has been causing the variations in skin quality for over a year.  The obvious question was why only one of them had a tablet causing extreme reaction.... We contemplated whether the product was reliably consistent and possibly more "poisonous", dose to dose, but think it is more likely that they throw up part or all of the dosage. (One of the dogs did throw up on Wednesday, we have to assume that was Isabella, who has been less "sick" and has only a couple of light hives).
    It may not be Sentinel for you, it may be some other occasional item or medication that they receive.  We accept treats from bank tellers and at dog shows etc., with a smile and then toss them afterward, not to offend the givers, but you can't be too careful that the unknown contains something you don't know.   I will follow up in about 2 months after NO SENTINEL, I am certain that will be then end of it, and we will be back to romping in the FL wild!
    image
    Centinal.JPG
    4032 x 3024 - 2M
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • edited February 2016
    Woooow! What a horrific story, Phil. One more evidence that no matter what we do we can't keep every trouble away. So sad for you and both dogs. Hope they will be well again really soon!

    It's a good thing that you shared that particular story, because of the Sentinel.
    This will probably be of big help in the future for others experiencing the same phenomenon.
    I have been re-evaluating the Revolution the vet had recommended for Djamila. To be honest, if possible I would completely waive such chemicals. But we know that's just impossible in Florida. I have also done extended research on over-vaccinating and wormers - these and others are the things I am talking about when I talk about "so many different influencing factors".
    I will keep a really close eye on how Djamila does on her next dose of Revolution. I had mentioned it before, she had bumps on her back for a while. And honestly the heartworm protection for some reason was something that did not really hit my mind as a trigger during the latest breakout. but that does not mean that it can't be.

    The things you said about the food made me think.
    If you don't mind me asking, which kibble is it you feed that is potato free (neither sweet nor regular ones)?
    And also, were you ever in the situation that Marco and Isabella had brown nails, allergies or less shiny coats?
    You seem to have experimented quite a lot. And it would be interesting to know, if you have been battling similar issues as we have or if you have just tried to figure out the best nutrition for your sweet ones without really having issues to fight off.
    Do you feed cooked chicken without problems?
    Do you by any chance have any resources on the other coast for affordable chicken and meat for the dogs and maybe even tripe? I have been searching to no end, but other than the meats in the grocery store or readymade raw food for dogs (such as Darwin etc.) I was not able to find a good source, like a hunter or butcher who sells the meats he can't sell for human consumption for dogs or something. I would love to feed Djamila only raw. But we have to buy the meat at the grocery store and the time we did that really cost an arm and a leg. Currently she is on good quality kibble and raw as well. But I would really love to switch again, if that would not be so much more expensive.
    How do you split kibble and raw? 1:1?

    Sorry, I see that's like a million questions. I don't mind, if it takes you a while to at least answer some of them. You have more important things to care about right now. Please tell your wife and the sweet guys I said hello.
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    edited March 2016
    First I must report that our neighbour gives all three of her dogs Sentinel with no "problems"... They are all small Mutts, and it is well known that mixed breeds are more tolerant and perhaps she wouldn't even know/ notice if her furry things had hives. Also, in Africa (of all places) our dogs had NO, repeat NO, annual or monthly meds/shots... I often wonder if it's a USA money-thing instead of a real need. Havingsaid that my daughter rescued a wonderful dog that had heartworm and it was sooo  much heartache and money to get him recovered... He is wonderful now though.   So,each to his own decisions/ consequences. I know food costs an arm and a leg,especially with two hungry monsters. Raw chicken is $1.99 a pound, and I
    bake it so it's not dry or fatty they love it. I have them on Stella & ChewiesRaw, which is, (I know, I know) $5.00 a pound!! But it's real meat, notfiller and you can get Rabbit, and Surf & Turf, and Bison, andTurkey and all sorts and THEY LOVE IT,... so they just 1/4 of their food
    raw, maybe a 1/3 if they are good. Then the kibble the other 1/3 witheggs and things.... Isabella gets brown nails if she has Kibble withPotato.. (generating the yeast)... but no ear muck, neither of them, ever.. andtheir skin only goes off when something "invades".... Poisons.... Here'sa snap of Issa's Coat today...

    (I really don't know why text sometimes formats this way with strange margins???)
    Missed one question... I get Pure Vita, The duck and also the Venison with Lentils, not potato. image
    ISSa022916.JPG
    4032 x 3024 - 2M
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • edited March 2016
    Thank you again for all your input, Phil.
    Isabella's coat looks sooooo great! I already noticed how thick and dense - just beautiful - their coats are, when I met your furry kids in person.
    The funny thing is that Djamila at NO time - neither as a pup, nor now - ever had a really dense and thick coat. Shiny and soft - yes. Thick - no. Especially her feet. The coat is so light on her paws that on photos they always look red, almost inflamed, even when completely ok.
    Yet she never had ear any infections or excessive yeast buildup between the toes, frito feet or something like that. I hope it stays that way.
    Should I ever get the feeling the yeast is getting out of hand, I will definitely try to go that potato free route.

    Thanks for all the information regarding nutrition and products. Comparing notes on that is really helpful. I hope not only for me.
    I am really thinking about trying to introduce fresh cooked chicken in order to raise the amount of fresh food without breaking the bank. She is already getting some with the Merrick kibble. So I guess she is tolerating chicken.

    But for now I will give things a little more time and leave everything as is. Somehow I feel we are in a very delicate phase. Her feet are ok, but I still catch her lick and bite on rare occasions (mostly in the evening and after the pool).
    It’s only short and not excessive, no biting until it bleeds, but I don’t want to experiment again and introduce more possible triggers before I am really, really, really sure, it’s the lawn.

    Today her new shoes arrived. I ordered two pairs - not 4 of the same size, because then the hind ones are always too big. Well, the smaller ones for the hind legs fit perfectly. The bigger ones for the front paws are too big - another week without running in the area :/
    But on a good note weather is warm enough again for pool playtime *yeah!*
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    Please share some details on those shoes!
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • edited March 2016
    I will. The replacement pair will arrive tomorrow. I am very curious myself.

    I have ordered "Ruffwear" boots.

    http://www.ruffwear.com/

    Just in case someone wants to know that. It's the best brand I know. There are a lot of knock-offs on the market - almost looking the same, far cheaper, but sadly also useless. Because in terms of dog boots perfect fit is everything! And those cheaper boots often don't really fit. Instead they move, turn, fall off and wear off quickly.
    The Ruffwear boots always lasted at least about a year for Fancy, who was wearing them on a daily basis back then.
    Ruffwear also offers neat harnesses which I have kind of an eye on since my latest experiences with Dean & Tyler. But not now.

    I'll keep you posted on our experiences with the boots.
  • edited March 2016
    UPDATE

    image

    Well, I have to say ... I am really impressed. Djamila is a wonderful dog, but she can be a little bitchy when something happens she does not like.
    Since yesterday we have all the right sizes for front and hind paws of those Ruffwear doggie boots.
    Part of me was hoping to be able and shoot a Youtube-worthy doggie dance video when putting all four on her. And I was prepared to spend some days on getting her used to not shredding the boots and accepting that I put them on without trying to escape or nipping me.

    What can I say ... after a handful of treats and lots of praise yesterday ... not really much of a doggie dance happened ... and today we're just back from our first trip in the new shoes roaming around the area and running on those meadows with fire ants and those spiky plants. The boots fit very well. She can walk and run in them, chases after her balls like crazy - no lost shoe, no twisted shoes, they stay in place, no stumbling. They seem a little stiff though, but I hope that is going to change over time.
    I had ordered different sizes for the front and hind legs - that was a great decision, it makes all the difference! Sizing is always a little difficult, when ordering for the first time. So far I always had to deal with returns before we had the perfect fit. Ruffwear recommends on their website to choose the smaller size when inbetween. That size really seemed too small, because it was less than I had measured on Djamila's paws. But their suggestion was correct.

    Djamila even seems to kind of understand that the boots help her walk better on those grounds that normally hurt her feet. I tried to show her that these boots are like our shoes, because she loves our shoes and constantly carries them around in the house ... and that moment she really looked like "Uh, I get it".

    I don't think that she will go as far as really LOVING her boots. But it looks like accepting them will only take a little time, but will not be such a big deal after all. Now they only have to last us a long time (the soles will eventually wear off) and everything's fine!

    We did have two minor set-backs today though. First of all she did throw herself on the grass across the street this morning, when we first tried to walk outside with the boots, like her legs were refusing to work. :)
    That left a mild rash on her belly and it will probably take one or two days to vanish. :/
    Also it makes me think again about our vegetation here and my pesticide theory.
    It’s crazy! I can let her play in the pool EVERY day, just have to use some conditioner to prevent her skin from drying and itching. But the minute she throws herself into nature around here for just a moment … we’re in trouble.

    And I noticed that one of her knuckles looked a little red earlier. I don’t know, if she hit it somewhere when playing in the pool after we came home or if that was one of the boots chafing. We’ll see.
  • edited March 2016
    Just in case anyone is following this story:
    I have added doggie socks to the boots, because shell sand and dirt shoveling into the opening when Djamila hits the playground full throttle sometimes start chafing on her feet.
    Shoes and socks turn out to be the perfect combination to prevent that from happening. Meanwhile Djamila brings her shoes when she wants to indicate that she thinks it's time to go outside and play.

  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    I really love all your videos. You do such a good job with them and Mila is such a smart Bullie.


    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited March 2016
    Thank you Steve, I am glad that you like my videos (thanks for the feedback on my Youtube channel, too :)>- ).

    It's easy to come up with such results when the dog is smart and making the video is fun!
    Many people think that English Bull Terriers are just plain dumb.
    I am happy to get the chance to prove them wrong with Djamila as the poster child for how smart this breed really is!  :D
Sign In or Register to comment.