Bad Experience causing First Litter Birthing Concerns!
NoongbatJack
Australia
Hi Everyone!
were relatively new to the site but am so so impressed with how kind, caring and helpful everyone is! Firstly let me introduce the Family.
We have Noongah a 3yr old female EBT, Jack a 4yr old Male EBT. Chocco and 3 Yr old Male Pitbull x Staffy and Chili an 8 month old Pitbull x Dogue De Bordeaux.
We have had Noongah, Chocco and Chili since they were puppies so i know their ins and outs, Jack was fully grown when he joined our family and although he is the biggest of them all, he is the softest of the lot. Chili, rules the roost, throwing her weight around already and bosses them all about.
As first time breeders I turned to the internet to gain as much knowledge as possible on breeding bull terriers before we even considered breeding Noongah and Jack. But nothing could prepare me for my first experience of delivering a Bull Terrier Litter.
We were dog sitting for a friend of ours who was overseas at the time, we were all under the impression "Foo" (the female we were dog sitting) was not due to give birth until after her Human had returned home. However this was not the case and i was caught completely off guard with the labor. I initially thought she was just constipated until she started to goo, it was just lucky we had already constructed a whelping box for our future litter.
I rang multiple vets who informed me that the mother will do all the work herself and i just needed to observe and take her into the clinic should things not go accordingly. As she was not our dog and i couldn't confirm her temperament during labor and i was concerned about her having the pups in the crate on the way, I rang my Aunty who had delivered her fair share of Litters. She informed me that mum does not always do it herself and being she was not our dog and in a strange environment surrounded by us 'strange humans' and our 'strange dogs', she could feel threatened and walked me through the worst case scenario and what i would need to do. To this day, i dont think i would have been able to do it without her guidance. 'Foo' seemed to be very calm in her whelping room, so i sat a little away from the box just watching intently. She delivered the first puppy and just as she started to cut the cord it started to cry so i got up to get closer in case i did need to jump in and help her, as i stood up she bit the pups leg and it yelped, as i bent in to grab it, to my horror she snapped and killed the pup instantly. It was rather horrific so i will not go into graphic details, it is an image i would not wish upon any EBT lover. She then began to growl at me, trying to stay on my feet and not pass out from what i had just witnessed my partner stepped in and muzzled her and removed the dead pup while i was frantically calling every vet in our area trying to find one who could or would assist. To my horror, not one would come out to help as they knew she was not my pet and i couldn't confirm whether she would attack them or not, even muzzled, an even bigger surprise was half of them never knew of a mother killing her pup from natural birth, they all knew someone who knew someone that had experienced it but never first hand, and the one that did was after a C section, she left them unattended and came back to find all the pups deceased.. So we were thrown in the deep end so to speak. After 14 hours we had 6 Healthy puppies which i hand delivered, broke sacs, cut cords, and gave their first breathe. Mum was generally not interested in feeding or making them defecate so this all needed to be done by myself. I was definitely not prepared for the sleepless nights but they came with some relief as mum was still producing milk. So at feeding time after each had its meal i would make them wee on her and defecate in the whelping box and rub them all over her to get their scent, she was still being muzzled at this stage so i could let her smell them up close without any fear of her biting one or me. I took all the pups to the vet to ensure they were healthy, that was not the reason for her rejecting them, they told me to start bottle feeding but mum was still producing milk and gradually becoming more interested in the pups so i just continued doing what i was doing.
Her human came home on the 4th day so they all went home, and I was so pleased to hear within the day she had taken them on and was feeding them and making them go tooty on her own, she even began to surrogate another litter who's mum was not producing enough milk. This made me feel extremely guilty about how things turned out during labor and question whether I could have done something differently. Everyone assured me i had done everything in my power to keep mum and pups healthy and it was due to her being in an unfamiliar environment and not being my dog, not knowing i was there to help not hurt her pups, that caused her to kill the first pup and show disinterest in the rest.
Now our girl Noongah is due to have her first litter and I am a nervous wreck hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Although she is my dog and she is a lovable affectionate character whose only aggression comes with food (doesn't matter how much or often she gets fed, the 2 bullies have to be separated come dinner time). She was always so gentle with Chili when she was smaller and never showed any anger towards her, even after Chili would spend half an hour nipping at her legs.
I know there are many posts on here in regards to the same thing but me and my partner are quite divided on how to help Noongah during her first labor. I feel it would be best to see how she does with the first pup, (only this time i will be in the box keeping her calm, so i can intervene straight away should she start to become to rough with cleaning etc). My partner on the other hand feels we should deliver them all manually from the first pup given the circumstances of our previous delivery experience. I agree to some extent only i feel we do it with assistance not completely, holding the cord so she doesn't bite to close, helping pup onto tit but allowing her too clean it and give them there first breathe herself. Shes my girl and i refuse to brand her with that as she is our dog and was raised with all the love and compassion any canine could dream of. I know this really doesn't matter, as I've read many times on here and am well aware that they are a hard dog to breed regardless of their temperament they could just not have the maternal instincts. I just feel it could cause undue stress to mum and pups if we intervene entirely when she could be capable of doing it herself. And make mum become aggressive toward them or me for not allowing her to do it herself. Regardless of the birthing situation I will be putting the pups in a separate heated box, close, but away from mum, so they and mum can be supervised 24/7.
So my question is, what do most of you do with the first litter with a bitch?
Do you deliver them manually straight away or do you allow her to cut the cord and clean, with assistance and only manually deliver them when necessary?
Any and all advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated!!
Regards,
Ash, Mitch, Noongah, Jack, Chocco and Chili!
Comments
I wish I could say what you experienced was an isolated incident which was extremely rare but as a breeder with integrity I'd be lying to you if I said it was. Sadly, I must admit that Bull Terriers on average are one of the hardest to breed and by far one of the most difficult to whelp a litter of puppies without constant supervision. It is not uncommon for litters to be hand raised from the second puppies are born. Many breeders will never admit to the lose of puppies that were actually born and exploit their happiness to a litter of 3 or 4 puppies after 5 or 6 weeks. I've even seen breeders advertising litters of 1 or 2 puppies and calling it a small litter without any admittance of puppies deceasing after birth. Bull Terriers go through way more stress than most other breeds and unless ideal accommodations are made the safety of the puppies born are in great risk.
Personally I have been raising, breeding, showing, and even rescuing Bull Terriers for MANY years. Our first litter of puppies was in 1993. I've learned a lot since that time and made many mistakes. Not one breeder I ever spoke to truly mentored me in a fashion that exposed the truth I needed to know and prepare for. I wish I could provide you a slight idea in regard to all the research I did online, books, Veterinarian wisdom, etc to gain all the information I could in regard to having the utmost confidence in whelping a healthy litter of puppies without complication. Truth is, nothing prepared me for all the difficulties I experienced throughout the first few years of breeding. Trust me, I was dedicated 100% to each litter and there was nothing I would not do in order to achieve 100% success. However, there was many things that I could not prepare for, nor research, that erupted with certain litters. I took so many notes, analyzed every aspect, and prepared more so for than a litter than 99.9% of any breeder but I still remained with hardened issues with whelping litters. My confidence came with one factor - experience. But here's the thing, I know now after many years and over 40 litters of puppies how to properly prepare to whelp a litter regardless what the circumstances are in order to ensure all puppies born and healthy, happy, and longing for a forever home at 8 weeks old. Due to all the hardships I have encounters through many litters I would much rather share my experience with others to prevent the mistakes so many others make.
Rarely do I ever hear of someone that recognizes the difficulties of whelping a litter of puppies before deciding to breed and reach out for advice. I wish I had a dollar for every time I have been woken up in the middle of the night from first time backyard breeders who are panicking because their Bull Terrier is giving birth and killing her puppies one at a time as they are being born. Don't get me wrong, there are many breeds of dogs that would be perfectly fine giving birth to a litter of puppies under the shed while the owner was at work paying no attention to them. I wish I could say this was the same for Bull Terriers but it is not. Have you ever wondered why EBT's are a rare breed and warrant a higher price tage than most other breeds? They are not an easy dog to breed or whelp a litter of puppies. However, I can set you up with success if you follow my guidelines before, during, and after birth. I'm not like other breeders who prefer to keep their knowledge to themselves because I care too much about the welfare of all Bull Terriers. With this I welcome you to call me so I can go over proper planning steps for your upcoming litter which will result in success without the stress you went through previously.
Call me - Steve (910) 526-2273
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Just noticed you were from Australia. A phone call might be expensive for you. Email me: bulliesofnc@hotmail.com
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Anyhow, all puppies are doing great I've been told photos will be posted real soon. :-bd
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
I received a phone call just the other day late at night from another breeder who was having difficulties with her litter of puppies in which the momma wasn't being good with. You have no idea how much email and phone call traffic I get. My wife often tells me to shut off my phone for a little while.
I think when people are looking for advice from another Bull Terrier Breeder they simply type "Bull Terrier Breeders" in Bing or Google and up pops my website, phone number, and email. Try and you'll see what I mean.
However, I enjoy helping people and providing advice about Bull Terriers. Any little bit of help I can provide will only help the breed we all love and cherish.
Now, if I could only retain people's names, emails, their dog names, situations, and our past conversations that may have been many months ago. It becomes difficult to remember everything and correlating one email from someone and thinking "could this person be the same person who recently posted of the Strictly Bull Terrier Forum, or maybe one of the 6,000+ members on our Facebook Group page, or maybe it's one of the 7,000+ people who subscribe to our Newsletter who have contacted me in the past?"
Try this one day - The next time you return to a restaurant that you and your wife ate at a couple months ago, when the waitress comes to your table to take your order look right at her and say "Hi Mary, great seeing you again we'll have the same dinner we ordered from you a few weeks ago." Then sit back and look and at her face when she says, "Um, sorry what was your name again and what did you order?"
Hopefully, you and your wife won't look at each and say, "I can't believe she doesn't remember us or what we order. It was only a couple months ago and we spoke in great detail."
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com