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Spaying

I know this is a touchy subject to some members on here but I am going through a tough decision and would like some opinions...Bianca is coming up on 7 months and I believe she is in her first heat cycle. No bleeding but her vulva is swollen and her behavior is a bit 'off'. Our vet had scheduled her spay on the 1st of this month, which I must admit I conveniently "forgot". I have been up and down about getting this procedure done from the start. I have been reading so many things both pros and cons and am just completely torn. I would like to know from you guys who have done and have not done this and what your thoughts, ebt's behaviors and health matters are due to your decision. My biggest thing is I don't want my babygirl in any pain. We recently got our small dog Sam neutered right after we got Bianca and it literally broke my heart after it was done. He is going to be 8 years old this year and it took me getting her to get his procedure done. I must admit Sam is a different/easier to manage dog after his. He was impossible to take to the dog park before because he was literally in EVERY dogs ass whining the ENTIRE time. It was so embarrassing for me and didn't seem enjoyable for him either. He absolutely could not control himself. This has all come to a complete halt after his procedure. He is a joy to bring to the dog park and doesn't seem to have anxiety there like he used to. With that being said, I am still uneasy about getting Bianca spayed. Males and females are completely different. She is my first bully and my first female. Your input would be helpful...

Comments

  • I am very interested to read everyones input. I have a female and its a first for me. I will be making this decision in the near future.
  • edited January 2016
    This is a tough question. I just answered to this question in a different forum (a German one, so posting the link to that discussion probably does not make much sense).
    Many owners are torn when it comes to this decision.

    I myself would never ever tell an owner to do or not do it. Because there are so many different factors involved and so many different opinions out there.
    I often hear about owners trying to "fix" certain behaviors by spaying/ neutering. But I have a feeling like there's only a 50/50 chance that it can change behavior - also because that depends on so many different circumstances.

    Then I read that younger studies suggest spaying/ neutering may increase the risk of certain cancers and other ailments, while in the past many vets recommended spaying to PREVENT certain cancers.

    Studies pro spaying often state that "intact" females have a higher risk of developing uterus infections - which can become life threatening and may make neutering (removal of all reproductive organs) necessary.
    Also spaying/ neutering prevents accidental pregnancies - no doubt about that.
    Some say that severe and frequent false pregnancies with production of milk usually occurring in intact females (but also possible in fixed ones!) can contribute to the risk of certain cancers.
    On the other hand, every general anesthesia puts an organism at risk of complications and death.

    Our last Bull Terrier, Fancy, almost died at the age of three from a uterus infection and had to be neutered. She became 14 years old and had to deal with lots of health problems - none of which seemed to be related to her missing uterus. But then again I am no expert when it comes to knowledge about hormones.

    Despite everything we are still convinced that the best way to go for us personally is to mess with nature as little as possible, which is why Djamila - our current Bull Terrier girl - now at the age of almost three is still "intact".

    Of course, we will watch her health closely and if we would ever find ourselves in the situation again that spaying/ neutering is the only option to save her life, of course we would take the step.

    But this is only how WE see and handle it.
    We could never tell anyone to do it the same way, because after all - no matter which route one decides to go - there never are any guarantees for anything.

    This is a decision every owner needs to make on his/ her own, depending on the very personal circumstances, life situation and the individual dog.
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    Erika, I have a lot to share on this subject but it's hi-ho, hi-ho time... So please try not to make such an important decision until at least later today, when I can submit a decent post. Meanwhile I am sure you have seen the below video?

    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • Wow, this video is great. It's making me lean more towards not spaying or if I do to at least wait till she's older. Hmm. 
  • Thank you for your responses already i love how fast you get answers/advice on this forum! Djammy i really appreciate your input it certainly is a tough decision and one to spend time and thoughts on. Bianca has not presented any health issues at this time and hope she doesn't in the future. Phil I have seen this video in a previous post and this is what really swayed my opinion! I am not making any decisions as of right now. I spoke to my vet yesterday just to ask some questions and they do recommend it but are very sensitive and respectful of my thoughts/worries. They adore Bianca and Sammy there. As we believe she is in her heat cycle now they will not preform the procedure until she is done anyhow so they really encouraged me to do my own independent research and not make an appointment at this time.
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    edited January 2016
    @erikashea ... It is great to get to know thinking people!!!! (makes a big change from my daily business regimen!!!)

    I really believe that one should avoid, wherever possible, "elective surgery" in young dogs.     As they get older, problems (pray they do not occur) get much less elective.  Let me use our wonderful little girl Isabella as an example.   NOT believing in spaying (or neutering) unless it is absolutely needed for medical reasons.... It was very hard to accept that we would need to spay Isabella after she had had her first season, solely because she lives with her brother, Marco, who is the randiest pirate in Florida. (and we couldn't risk having in-breeding, even though they are virtually under constant supervision).... She finally had her surgery, only to find that she was allergic to the suture material that they had used, (Even though our most trusted vet had used the "highest quality" of non-toxic suture thread available. Isabella reacted completely negatively to the suture material, became totally toxic, and septic, the flesh "rotted" and her internal surgery "collapsed". She needed to be opened up again, and the repairs made with stainless steel sutures (which you can still feel under her flesh today, because they will never dissolve)... That worked, but the original infections required large amounts of antibiotic, to which she was AGAIN!!!! allergic, they had to change antibiotic type three times before one was found that she could tolerate and it worked.  In the end, after all that trauma she was fine... but the whole experience/ toxicity, antibiotic saturation, completely weakened her immune system and she is only just now, 2 1/2 years later, being able to recover from the initial shock to her system.... She has had a far weaker immune system than her brother.
    I know I will be criticized for this, but I honestly believe the whole spay/ neuter concept is a liberal plot forged to enhance income for the "parasite layer" (ie the service industry). Much like the insurance industry and those that institute rules and regulations so that a bunch of office bound, non-creators can benefit from the hard earned money of creative/ productive people.
    There can be no natural reason why dogs or bitches should be de-sexed in this UN-natural fashion.   It is just a bull shit story to (theoretically) reduce the volume of unwanted dogs...... The only REAL solution to the existence of un-wanted dogs is to eliminate, moronic low quality people from acquiring dogs  in the very first place.  There are relatively few "unexpected or spontaneous" bitch impregnations in the home....
    It is the back-yard breeders and puppy mills that produce more puppies than responsible humans can handle.... so they end up in the hands of morons.
    Unless your dog needs neutering or your bitch needs spaying for LIFE THREATENING reasons, my recommendation is that you wouldn't do it at all.!!!
    Always keep an eye on their daily health and if there are any bad signs consult the best vet around, remind them that purpose in life is to serve animals before their bank balances, and establish whether remaining intact threatens their life... (the dog that is :)>-)
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • Wow Phil, thats awful that happened to poor Isabella!!!  There are lots of pros and cons to doing the surgery.  I was in the vet industry for over 30 years and of all the thousand spays and neuters I assisted in, maybe 5 had issues.  And none as bad as Isabella!!  And I am speaking of young, healthy dogs, not emergency situations.

    I think it has a lot to do with your own personal life style.  If you can manage your female dog coming into heat twice a year, lasting for 3 weeks and bleeding for 10-14 days out of that time, then definitely consider leaving her intact.  I think it would also depend on where you live.  If you're out in the country where people still let their intact male dogs run loose and theres coyotes and wolves roaming about, you might reconsider.  She also wouldn't be able to go to doggie daycare or boarding while in heat. She will want to get to a male dog when she's ready to be bred as much as a male will want to get to her!!

    I would also ask your breeder if they had any known issues with any previous puppies that were sold in regards to having allergic reactions to sutures, pre-mix, antibiotics etc.  That can also be helpful if its known in the line.

    I have had many dogs over the years and different breeds, mostly females, and always kept them intact.  But as they got older, issues arose with pyometra, (open and closed) and mammary tumors (breast).  I always ended up getting them spayed in an emergency situation when they were older and it was much harder on them and life threatening.  So I too was in a debate over whether or not to get Hannah spayed.  She is our first bull terrier and I am now retired, so I wouldn't be assisting in her surgery, which made me very nervous.  But our life style and country living didn't fit with an intact female.  And I really didn't want her to end up with pyometra, which they always seem to do when left intact and never bred.  So we had her done at 6 mos of age and I was a wreck the whole day.  I tried to contact my breeder to see if any of her bullies had allergic reactions to meds, anaesthetic to no avail.  And Hannah had a reaction!!  Not as bad a Isabella, but she too, was allergic to the suture material.  She had no outside sutures, but layers of inside dissolvable sutures.  Her incision swelled up twice the size, she had to go on antibiotics and it took close to 3 weeks to heal up.  Nevertheless, I'm still glad we got her spayed.
     
    Now we have Tea' and she is coming 5 mos.  So I started doing more research and found a vet in our area that does Laparoscopic surgery.  Awesome.  Recovery time - 72 hours.  No sutures, no cutting open the abdomen.  Just 2 small 1/4 inch incisions and the ovaries are clamped off.  More expensive (of course) but way better for the dog.  I'm sure they have this type of procedure in the States.  Check it out, you might be pleasantly surprised.  Tea' is booked in middle of February.  I will let ya'll know how it goes!!

    Also keep in mind, the older they get, the harder the surgery is on them.  Hopefully my input has been somewhat helpful.  Good luck in your decision.  
  • Oh my goodness that is absolutely terrifying Phil!!! It makes complete sense as to why you are so dead set against the procedure. @fullofbull pyometra is what scares me. I have read and heard stories of this and it is so sad. I have actually been reading about the laparoscopic surgery and was leaning more towards something like this. Money of course is always an issue I would be lying if I said it wasn't BUT in the interest of my babies I would sell my bed if I had to! We fortunately are in a good financial position right now where this could be an option if it is available in my area. My big fear of the surgery was an allergic reaction as well. Although Bianca doesn't seem to have any reactions to anything yet I know from reading how highly sensitive they are. Especially the all whites like my baby girl. I hate to admit it but this is because of selfish reasons and a debate with my husband who is 100% for it. We live in a very small apartment above our office so we/she relies on the dog park as her energy outlet. I know it is only about a month out of the year but she gets so frustrated if she doesn't get to go play with her friends. Walks do not do it for her she needs hardcore running. I still haven't come to a set conclusion and REALLY appreciate and value all of your opinions and stories.
  • I have read a couple different stories about pyometra and female dogs having issues due to being intact, mostly female dogs. It's scary, but I personally have never had this experience.

    Throughout my life, my family and/or I have had 4 dogs (various breeds). First dog, male, neutered. Died at age 15 basically due to organ failure cause he was old. Second dog, female, spayed. Died at age 13 due to chronic leukemia. Only other medical issues were impacted anal glands and the fact that they left a surgical towel in her body after her spay... :|  She gave birth to a litter of 6 puppies and was spayed after, for the record. Third dog, male, neutered. Died at age 13 due to undetermined cancer. Only other ailments were hip problems.
    Fourth dog, Quinn, female bull terrier, spayed at 6 months. Would I maybe have waited a little longer to spay her? Probably. Would I have still had her spayed? Yes. Quinn was spayed with regular materials. She did bleed a lot apparently, and they did a belly wrap when they sent her home with me. Other than that, she has had no other internal health issues and recovered quickly from her spay. She is turning 5 this year. :-O

    I only share these because opinions are opinions. There's so much information out there about this topic I don't really know if there is a right or wrong or better or worse. I think people's decisions are largely based on their experiences, especially if it's something as traumatic as what Phil experienced. You do what you think is right for your baby!!
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