Growing our family in Toronto

LittleOtto

Hello everybody!

There's been a really long time since I have last posted anything here.
Until today, I only posted about our little Otto's health issues. Since my last posting, he has been doing great! Not only his seizures got less and less frequent (practically stopped), we are now able to understand his mood much better. He is now a little over 2 years old, which means he is much more calm than he used to be.

So... My wife and I have recently moved from Tokyo to Toronto with Otto. We have been here for about 3 weeks and only now Otto is getting back to his old self. He was really jet-lagged, sleeping most of the day and waking up crazy to play after 7pm, and a bit overwhelmed at the big off-leash spaces he has to roam which made him a bit shy.

In about two weeks we will be moving to our permanent apartment, and we would love to get Otto a little sister! Otto is a mini, but we are considering both MBTs and EBTs, depending on the quality of the breeder and the puppies.

My question is...do anybody know of good breeders in Ontario? It will take us a couple of months to get a car, so the closer to us, the better!

Attached are a few pictures of Otto.

Thank you all for any advice!

BulliesofNC

It's great hearing from you again. Otto sure is a  very healthy looking Bull Terrier!!  He looks like he's smiling in all his photos too.

I wish I could help you with a breeder referral in Canada. Unfortunately from what I've heard you don't have many reputable breeders out that way. To be honest over the last three years we have provided four puppies to owners that resided in Canada.
You could always find out if there is a Bull Terrier Club in your area that could provide you with some suggestions for breeders they are familiar with and recommend. Good luck.

exiled

That picture is so funny of him looking at that toy.  If Steve ships his puppies to Canada, then that's my recommendation!

philsergeant

Yes, that photo of him with the toy is funny, it's like he (excuse my fertile imagination), just coughed up his testes, and is saying, "what the ***k?"  Glad you were able to import him to Canada... When we left Africa to return (very ••••••g briefly) to England, our dogs had to go into quarantine for SIX MONTHS!!!! Screw that, a Bullie stuck away for 6 months would destroy them, so we had to leave them with my brother in Africa.

exiled

Hahaha!  I'm cracking up at your perfect description of that picture, @philsergeant .  I hadn't thought about it, but you're right!

Quinnofhearts

Love how he is sitting in the first picture! He is a handsome red boy.

I have read that Pit Bulls are banned in parts (or all?) of Canada. I hope Bull Terriers are not lumped into this? Surely they are smart enough to know the difference between the breeds. I don't know much about breeders in Canada either. The only thing I suggest is to sniff around Chicago because I remember looking into some breeders up there when I was looking, but buyer beware of course...

fullofbull

I'm from Northern Ontario, and yes it is hard to find a breeder in Ontario.  We were on the list for a Bullie from Steve, but one ended up being available here.  If it wasn't for how bad the Canadian dollar sucks and the shipping of a pup, we would have definitely preferred to get a puppy from Bullies of NC.  Having said that, Hannah is turning into a fabulous BT, and I would recommend this breeder.  (although shes hard to get a hold of!!)  The kennel is Breton's Kennel in Seaforth, Ont.  She breeds OES and EBT. since 1995.  It was a 6 hour (one way) drive for us from up north, but may not be as far for you.  She does have nice bullies and Hannah's temperament is outstanding!!  Shes very smart and well behaved.  You can also go on the Bull Terrier Club of Canada site to find other breeders.  Good luck!!  

And yes, Pit Bulls are banned around these parts, but NOT Bull Terriers.  Fortunately they do know the difference.  

LittleOtto

Everybody, thank you so much for all your replies.
Right now we are really busy with moving and get all out documentation done, but as soon as we make any kind of decision, we will keep you updated.

A great week to everyone!

Rumour

Please check both the Bull Terrier Club of Canada and the Bull Terrier Fanciers Association websites for Ontario breeders. I know of a few excellent breeders in Ontario but I am unsure of upcoming puppies. Good luck in your search!

Rumour

You may also want to check out Just 4 Keeps. It's a bull terrier rescue located.....somewhere near TO

LittleOtto

Thank you all for your comments.
Also, thank you Rumour! I was under the impression that I had already replied to your comments.

I am writing to let you guys know that the wheels have been spinning, and last night we got a phone call from the breeder in Oregon, saying that your application had been chosen as the new home for one of their baby-girls.

Her name is yet to be announced, but I can't wait to see her with Otto. It will be adorable to watch Otto (red, strong, smaller than average, "mature" 2 year old miniature bull terrier) playing and educating his big little sister (tri-colour, born to massive and sweet standard-sized English bull terrier parents).

She's supposed to arrive by early November and we'll be sure keep you all posted.

philsergeant

A ThanksGiving Gift, Nice... You do have ThanksGiving there, Aye?

BulliesofNC

That's great news! I'm unaware of any Bull Terrier breeders in Oregon. What was the kennel name?

LittleOtto

Nah...just had a grown-up talk with the wife. We moved here two months ago, we still have boxes to unpack, an apartment to organize, a car to buy... even though we really thought this was the right time, we decided to settle down a little more, know the surroundings better, and then, maybe next year, try again. So we called the breeder before he sent us the contract.

@philsergeant , I do believe they have thanksgiving here, but I am not sure. We are originally from Brazil, and we don't have it there.

@BulliesofNC , it is from Portland Bullterriers. Their website is a bit outdated, but we have been following them on instagram for a long time, and just love their dogs.

BulliesofNC

I had to look up Portland Bullterriers because I had never heard of them. However, after learning they have only been breeding one year now and have only one litter produced thus far it's no wonder I have not heard of them.

The first thing I noticed on their website was my AKC Banner I made with two of my Bull Terriers on it. I guess they must have liked it and decided to use it on their page despite copyright infringement.

I have an Instagram account myself and noticed Portland Bullterriers activated an account a couple months ago with two photos posted.

I wish you luck with your new puppy and hope she's healthy. The Momma sure looks like a happy Bull Terrier.

philsergeant

Steve, who is that photo of?

BulliesofNC

That's "Pearl."  Portland Bull Terriers has two breeding females. Pearl and Pickles. However, Pickles had a litter not too long ago so I assume Pearl is the female who just gave birth.

Portlands has one stud named Chumley so I assume he is the father.

Here's their website - http://www.portlandbullterriers.com/

I didn't see anything on the website that mentioned genetic testing or health guarantees but then again I may have missed it.

Quinnofhearts

I "know" Pickles and Chumley from a different bull terrier forum I used to be on. They are super cute, especially Chumley who has definitely benefited from Rufus' genes, and the person who was their owner on the forums was always very nice. I am also typically nice, but I don't know if I'd make a good breeder! (probably because I'd want to keep the puppies forever)

Just looking at Pearl, she seems to be built well and is precious as can be, but a question for breeders - is it recommended to breed a floppy-earred bull terrier? Surely her pups would all still have the ability to have standing ears, was just wondering. (and this is not a knock on Pearl! I am just genuinely curious )

Quinn was from a similar breeder like this. Small operation, only a few dogs being bred. Are they backyard breeders, technically, yes. But the adult dogs were well taken care of in my case and we were in contact for quite a while. I trusted her, and I ended up with a great dog with no health issues so far, four years in. Sometimes I think it's hard to judge small breeders like this cause everything looks great and there really is nothing wrong with them medically and they prove it/test their puppies etc...but you never know.

If this is the correct one, this is the Instagram. The dogs appear happy and healthy!
 https://instagram.com/karmagotya/

LittleOtto

@Quinnofhearts That's the same. However, the account I follow is the other owner's, and he posts a lot more pictures: https://instagram.com/rich_ee_rich/

Quinnofhearts

Well that was a mistake, now I've convinced myself I need at least 6 more puppies!!
Do you know which pup is yours yet? They are so darn cute. :x

BulliesofNC

Yep, that's the same breeder.
Chumley is the sire and Pearl is the Dam. Apparently Pearl came from Phantom Long Face Bull Terriers which is another BYB out in Oklahoma.

fullofbull

Boy oh boy, there sure is nothing cuter than a BT puppy!!!  That's too bad Pearls ears don't stand up!  But shes still a nice looking bullie.

Quinnofhearts

I believe that in the case of the litter LittleOtto will be selecting from, Chumley is not the sire. There is a tri-colored male named Clyde that had that honor.

BulliesofNC

Aw, this must be them together. A cute couple.

Quinnofhearts

lol looks like Clyde is learning what relationships are all about...he gets to be a footrest.

philsergeant

Really your spelling is getting bad Steve, I think you meant to say " a cute pretzel"

exiled

Are her ears up some of the time?  I looked at the Instagram and it looked like her ears are different in some of the pictures.  For some reason, floppy ears on a bull terrier is very painful for me to see.  I had a hard time with the puppy for a few weeks until we could tape his ears.  Now, the ears are perfect and he looks like a bull terrier.

Congratulations on the new member of the family!  It has been such a pleasure getting a puppy little brother for Rodney.  They had a rough few first days, but they absolutely love each other.

exiled

Forgot to put in my two cents that I think they need to remove Steve's pictures from their site ASAP.  That's Steve's dogs and his photos.  That's not a cool thing to do.

BulliesofNC

@exiled - I didn't think it was too cool either. My photos on my website prevent "right clicking" to "save picture as" option. However, people still choose to use the Snipping Tool to steal photos. Phantom Long Face Bull Terriers actually has the same photo on their website too which is the other breeder Portland Bull Terriers purchased Pearl from. I guess they both like the photo.

PS - If you look closely at the earlier photos of Pearl where you see one ear standing you will note a distinctive kink in the middle of the ear. This is from cartilage damage often caused by ear infection. I have seen it several times on other Bull Terriers. I even seen it once at a show where one GCH brindle female had a damaged ear.

Take note on this photo of Pearl where the issue was setting in: 

BulliesofNC

Floppy ears or perfect, they all have golden hearts and awesome character which is the most special thing about any Bull Terrier.  :-bd

LittleOtto

The one I was going to receive was Betty Boop, a tri-colour female.
However, as most people must have missed, we have withdrawn our application.

They are cute dogs though, aren't them?

BulliesofNC

I think every Bull Terrier I see is as cute as can be. I could never get tired of seeing Bullie puppies! However, I can't lie, I was happy to see that you ended up canceling on the purchase of the puppy. I can understand that you reside in an area where Bull Terriers are not very common and breeders are hard to come by. However, it's like that here too and many have to conduct thorough research and devote to a road trip in order to acquire the right one.
As mentioned before I do not know this breeder at all but for good reason, they are a new breeder breeding Bull Terriers with no known bloodlines of merit. They did not health test their breeding stock, no DNA's conducted on file within AKC, and offer no solid Health guarantees. Cute puppies but all puppies are cute. You can find a hundred other BYB's in Puppyfinder.com who are selling the same quality EBT's.
Since you are not prepared right now to purchase a puppy use the time wisely by conducting more research so you can import in a Bull Terrier that truly meets the standard and has the qualities that you'd expect in a quality EBT.
There are many good breeders to be found that will stand behind the puppies they produce with 2 year health guarantees that cover ANY genetic health issue. Breeders that invest into genetic testing on their Bull Terrier so people have confidence not only in their pedigree and the way they look but their health and temperament as well. Personally when I see a new breeder that not only hasn't developed a bloodline of their own but has not health tested their breeding stock I get a little disappointed to see that they are blindly producing Bull Terriers with no knowledge of what they are producing.
Trust me it's a lot easier for someone to depict information in regard to their health tests and health guarantees on a website than it is to steal photos from another breeder to paste onto their website. However, when I breeder conveniently omits scanned pedigrees, DNA certificates, no mention of heath tests, minimal photos, and no AKC kennel affiliated reputation it usually spells out a BYB that is here today and gone tomorrow.
Yes, cute pups but you might also wish for a pup that will actually look stunning as a mature adult. Just my 2 cents.

exiled

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you weren't getting the puppy.  Again, I'm sorry about that.  The experience that we've had, I hope you can have, too.  My husband met with Steve and Craig and met all of their bull terriers.  Both families were totally open and inviting.  We got on the waitlist for a while and having met the bull terriers, we knew firsthand what to expect in conformation and temperament.  We have been so pleased with both of the Bullies of NC BTs that are our babies. 

If you have a weekend, you might want to consider traveling to visit with them, if nothing else, to get to experience the nirvana of lots of beautiful BTs that love people.  If one or two capture your heart or have a particular look or build that you like, then you wait until they have a litter and you let them fly the puppy to you.  We used a service where a young man flew to Steve and took our puppy on the flight, in the cabin with him the entire time.  We met at the airport and our lives haven't been the same since.

I'm not trying to pressure you or sway you in any way, other than to let you and maybe others reading what our experience was like and how nice it is to have a puppy that we know exactly where he came from, that he was cared for like family, and that everything is run professionally.  I do hope when you're ready for another puppy, that you'll have as good of an experience as we have, and that your BT puppy will bring you as much joy and happiness as our Rodney and our Stax bring to us.

BulliesofNC

Thanks for the kind words Hope. I'm not trying to steer anyone towards us for a puppy. I have great respect for those who contact us on their own through research in pursuit for a puppy and I don't make any attempts to solicit for puppy sales. Currently we have 35 people on our waiting list who have placed deposits and are patiently waiting for a puppy from an upcoming litter. I'm actually hoping to minimize the waiting list vice seeing it grow any bigger.

Again, there are many good breeders available but along with the good breeders there are a dozen more Back Yard Breeders (BYB's) and Puppymills trying to make a buck. My goal is simply to provide guidance on what to look for and what to stay away from.

exiled

I know you're not trying to do that, but there is a lot to be said for allowing people to come visit and get to know the BTs.  Our experience has been such a good one that we want to not only share it, but also raise the bar for other breeders to follow your example. 

BulliesofNC

Today I got the pleasure of speaking on the phone with Rich from Portland Bullies. Rarely will another breeder take kindly to assumptions made about their breeding practices with an open mind. I'm sure Rich's intention was to naturally defend his reputation as a breeder and to relay to me what they are doing correctly as new breeders regardless of what is not publicly projected on their website.

This is where posts of this natural actually work very beneficially when the end result is awareness within some key areas of importance that "should" be clearly displayed on any breeders website. Without them breeders will always be assumed to be breeding unethically and without intent of bettering the breed.

Rich now realizes the importance of posting their Health Guarantee along with any health tests conducted on their Bull Terriers. This is something Rich plans on implementing on their website which will surely provide the public eye a lot more confidence in them as a breeder.

Let it be known, I have no ill feelings towards Portland Bull Terriers and after speaking with Rich I can tell he has true care and pride in trying to better his breeding ethics with pride. That's more than I can say for 90% of the new Bull Terrier breeders who surface each year. However, when a breeder takes notes on the important aspects that truly needs to be publicly projected in order to gain confidence from prospective buyers it proves they have nothing to hide and are willing to abide to the high expectations of a reputable breeder. Doing so prevents the negative assumption of them being just another BYB or Puppymill.

Although the Health Tests and Puppy Health Guarantees remain a mystery with Portland Bull Terriers Rich has agreed that the need to present this information on their website is highly warranted and plans on incorporating it. Hopefully down the line our discussion on the importance of Limited Registration and Co-ownership will be continued in order to prevent potential mistakes within future inappropriate breeding.


Again, it's nice to know a post like this could result in improvements for projecting proper documentation which clearly provides proof within the breeders dedication to health tests, confidence in an appropriate Health Guarantee, Authentic Pedigrees, and breeding ethics in general.


For anyone else reading this post wondering what I consider the "basic" mandatory information that should be projected on a breeders website that provides others with confidence that they are ethical breeder here are a few:

• Clear and concise health guarantee.
• Genetics testing on breeding stock and puppies
• Actual scanned pedigrees
• DNA Certificates
  
• Limited Registration or Co-ownership Full Registration properly contracted
• Quality Photos of each Dog they own so assessment of structure and conformation can be conducted.
  

Very simple stuff to include on any website but these are vital bits of information that MANY wish to see before even contacting a breeder. Without this information breeders can easily be opinionated by others as just another BYB with no other intentions other than selling puppies.

exiled

That's great news! 

Quinnofhearts

LittleOtto, I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out.

I also hope that Portland Bull Terriers / Rich can make these improvements for the betterment of the breed! I don't think some "BYBs" are intentionally trying to harm the breed. But with help from others they can improve and really do something positive for the breed. Good luck to them!

philsergeant

Heck... And all this time, I thought BYB meant Bring Your Own Beer....
Yes, let's hope they thrive through good intentions, there is nothing, not a single thing, not global cooling, not gun control or limited government ...nothing, that the world needs more... than a few million more Bull Terriers.