dogmatic head collar

bigbear1tracey

Hi everyone I've been looking for a head collar that can be used on ebt because there is not hardly any people that I can kind that make them I've come across one called dogmatic headcollar and it looks quite good I've been in contact with them because to see if they have been tryed and fit ebt has any one tryed this product here's my reply and some photos of it they do it in material too these photos give u a good idea of how they work

philsergeant

Man, Those things look like what Hopkins wore in Silence of The Lambs!

BulliesofNC

I have not seen anyone using one of those type head collars before. However, I have seen them on a few horses. 

bigbear1tracey

I agree @BulliesofNC and @philsergeant the leather design looks harsh but I wanted u to see the detail of the design the only real difference to a normal halti is under the mouth the way the extra bit of material and loops round so it does not twist or cut across the eyes If I was to get this I would get the nylon padded one because I needed to find something that I can use on precious to prevent her lunging and jumping to get to the dogs or is there any other that u know of that would help as the way she's being walked at the moment is not helping her constant tenchion on the lead I try to walk loose but she just drags me and if she wants to lash out at a child on a scooter etc dogs it's not goodthis is the nylon one as I can't find anything else that can be worn by a ebt

philsergeant

If you need to correct behaviour, ( rather than prevent her from biting someone/thing) then you need to use something that sends a message. Otherwise it's just you fight/pulling against her. So, first she needs to get the verbal NO! And I'd suggest a pinch collar or electric collar so she feels the pain of doing something wrong.

bigbear1tracey

@philsergeant I did have a pinch collar but I threw it as it made sophie sore I could order another and I've been reading up on electric collar but was scared to use it as she's scared of the outside hence why she's doing what she is what do u think about using it on a nerves dog .

LokiLostCoast

I wouldn't use a E collar unless you have someone that can train you to use it correctly. A pinch collar would work. I suggest finding a balanced dog trainer to help with it. Our trainer was always very positive after correction. It only took a few corrections for Loki to understand that he needed to listen. And it will help with the pulling on the lead. Best advice I can give is to find a balanced trainer who can teach you how to properly use a pinch collar for the issues you have.

LokiLostCoast

With a E collar if you correct at the wrong moment when using it for aggression it can make the issue worse. Which is why we haven't gotten one for Loki for his issue with pups.

BulliesofNC

tuco88

I tried using an E-collar with my deaf EBT because he tends to be aggressive towards other dogs. It did not work for him because it would excite him even more. He wouldn't understand where the correction was coming from. We then moved to a pinch collar and it worked immediately. However, EBT have such muscular necks that after a while the pinch collar was no longer being effective. We have now switched over to a slip leash. Not only does the slip leash help me correct him, but it also helps me have more control of my dog. I've been training my dog at a local kennel and that is why we have switched collars. Every dog is different, some may react better to pinch collars than others, and some may have a better experience with a slip leash. It has not been easy training my deaf EBT, but I'm all in with him. People tell me I'm the right person to train Tuco. I'm just happy Tuco did not end up in the wrong hands because training a deaf dog requires a lot of patience.....a lot.

bigbear1tracey

Thank u for all your comments I know how to use a pinch collar it did wonders for my sophie and worked but as she has no fur under her neck this was not ideal for her I used it very lightly and correction at the right time and she was fab but it made her neck so sore even with rubber stoppers on the end I've watched loads of videos with trainers on the e collar but as u say u have to do it at the right time perfect I threw sophies pinch collar away as I never thought I'd need it again they r really good and because precious has a good thick coat round her neck I can't see any problems maybe I'll order one .

LokiLostCoast

This photo shows the correct placement for a prong collar. Also you should not be able to slide the collar over the dogs head you must in-snap it at the prongs. It should fit snug.

bigbear1tracey

Yes I know but thank u for advice .

exiled

The horse picture made me crack up laughing. We have had success with this harness and leash training kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Pull-Harness-Leash-Training/dp/B00IKXS9XY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432058505&sr=8-1&keywords=two+hounds+design+harness

There's several versions and different brands with a similar premise, but what I like about this particular one is that it has the leash with connectors at the dog's chest and back.  It doesn't tug or press on his neck, so there isn't any panic, breathing issues, or stress.  When I pull on the leash loop handle, it pulls him sideways, toward me, since it is connected at the chest and back.  This is important to me because I had a very bad accident and had to learn how to walk all over again.  I can't dig my heels into the ground for leverage, so I need something that I can use my arms to pull him towards me or hold him still.  It keeps the leash short since it's doubled and it helps him heel.

Not discouraging any other types discussed, this is just what happened to help with Rodney.  Not all BTs are alike.  He would hyperventilate when I used other collars and leashes.  When he would start panicking, it got even worse by the second.  The harness and leash I linked has been wonderful for him.  So many dogs respond positively to the other collars listed, too, so it's probably trial and error and getting to know your individual dog's triggers.

If you look at the attached picture of him, the light green collar is his collar with registration and name tags only.  The leash isn't attached to it, so there isn't any pressure on his neck.  The freedom harness is black with some gold loops.  You can see how the leash is doubled and only pulls on his chest and back, which gives me really good control of when he gets excited when other dogs are barking, etc.

bigbear1tracey

Hi @exiled I've used this harness before on my first bully and it didn't really work for me but thank u for your input and I'm glad u was able to find something that worked for u after your accident I'm glad u managed to learn to walk again fantastic to hear and good on u for fighting and getting back on your feet .the problem I'm having is I need to have good control of presious but I have to focus on her head simply because of her agression I've never in my life seen a puppy that can be so fired up she will literally try and do back flips whilst I'm trying to get her away from the situation and because of her shear strength and determination to want to get to get to who or what ever it is ie a child or a buggy a pram a kid on a scooter and other dogs is actually quite scarey for a outsider to watch her behaviour everything is a threat to her as the moment on the outside world and this is no fault of her own she's been given a bad deal in the first 5 and a half months no socialisation at all I just need to get the right equipment that she will respond to at home she is so loving and wants cuddles etc it's so sad to see how is is out side she's let a few people pet her which is a improvement I've given her a couple of days break from going out cause she was so stressed I've just played in the garden with her and tomorrow I'll start again but I need to get something ordered soon as .

exiled

You're right, that is a different situation you're dealing with at the moment.  It really is a trial and error process, and there are triggers that need to be dealt with individually.  The first head collar does look like it would work, but do you think she'll freak out some with that on her face?  Poor girl.  She had the rough start before you got her, and now what is a normal life for a dog is all new to her and stressful.

Best of luck with Precious.  You really are working hard to do the right thing for her and not giving up. 

philsergeant

@ Big Bear... If it were me I'd go with a prong collar and go with a good quality stainless steel one.... the better quality ones have well rounded prongs that don't scratch or cut.... if you end up with one with sharp edges (where they cut the metal) then have your son file the edges so they are smooth to the touch. Then practice using it as a communication tool, not as a "strangulation" tool... she needs to get your messages through it, not your strength. It's all in the timing and force used. Use it to get her attention with a quick jerk each time you want her to respond to direction.  Not JUST when you are in desperation (at which time she will be soooo distracted you could shove a knife up her arse and she wouldn't even notice)... use it to get her to focus on walking the way you want and not looking sidewards, and turning corners when required. Pretty soon she will see it as your way of letting her know that you are in command, won't take no for an answer , and then you'll be able to control her when "trouble" comes along.

bigbear1tracey

@philsergeant I was reading up on them again last night and saw about making sure on the rounded edges I'm going to measure her today and order one the link that steve put up I think was good about showing u how to condition her to it at first with sophie I just put it on and off we went lol .I was using a halti on her she was ok but I didn't like it coming up across her eye and twisting that's why I looked at the one above they state it does not do those things .

philsergeant

I've yet to see a mechanical device that can stop a Bullie flipping around when they are excited about something... the only thing, with time, is them learning that it displeases you... then still they start to get out of control when they are happy and correct themselves when they hear you shout NO!...
One other thing to remember, is when you are walking her your invisible emotions are totally visible to her, so, if you are "worried" when someone approaches... she feeds off that to make herself anxious.

bigbear1tracey

@philsergeant the problem I'm having is because she pulls or drags me should I say I have to have her lead tight to keep her beside me so straight away it's putting tenchion on the lead that goes to her if I give her a loose lead she's dragging me down the road which happened today I walked her for 15 min a came home I did not have the strength to hold her back she was all over the place sge was going frim side to side nearly put me on my face I've ordered the collar it will be here in a few days I don't get worried with her on the lead but if she sees something or a dog in the distance her body language is dominance straight away as I very been reading up on body language then the closer they get its aggression I think I'm just going to give her play time in the garden till collar comes because walking her is a battle at the mo until I have the collar then I can get some proper order with her training .

philsergeant

@bigbear1tracey .... From what I have observed so far you are a strong and lovely lady... so don't take any offense when I say that it's time for some assertive intervention from the not-so-fair sex. Your "better half" or you son need to kick in and help get her to heal and behave... She needs to be dominated... she needs to be the one coming home begging for relief. As long as she believes she is in charge you will struggle, no matter the physical tools you use.

bigbear1tracey

@philsergeant no offence taken I completely agree with what u say I can' dominate her in every thing just not the walking to heal at the moment because of her behaviour I can't let her off the lead in a park etc incase she attacks another dog and she's not trained enough yet to come back my other half knows he needs to walk her but in all fairness to him he's working all day then comes home at 5 and works till 10 pm every night as he's renivateing our garden and trying to sort it out as quickly as possible so the dogs can use it properly everything is all up the wall this end I have a slip lead might give that a go today as I don't like to be beaten I have 8 discs in my back that r really in bad nick hence why I'm struggling if I have to put all my strength into yanking her back constantly I'll be buggered lol I do give her a firm NO!!!!!! But she don't care she's stubborn thank u for your help I'm very grateful at the mo she's charging around the garden with chaos so hopefully she will drain some energy lol .

bigbear1tracey

And also my son is doing the same hours too as my other half .

bigbear1tracey

@philsergeant well today we've made good progress I put the rope slip lead on stayed on the road where I live and everytime she went to pull I just turned back in the opersite direction and think I wore the pavement out back and forth lol she was really pulling for about 15 min then when she tryed to past my left leg I only had to gently pull the lead and release as I walked back the other way by this time I had 100 percent slack on the lead holding it very lightly and just continued to do this with success for another 20 min by the end she was walking by my side at ease so this is what I'm going to do with her not trying to go out walking around everywhere just do as I have today .can't tell u how many times turned and went tge other way thow lol .

Gypsy123

@bigbear1tracey i use slip lead for solo,she wasn't pulling so much as sitting her fat arse down a refusing to budge ) but she's great on this lead,after an initial 5 mins of being excited and acting like a doofus she settles down and I can hold the lead with two fingers.although if she sees something really exciting(like 300 kids at school gate)she will still pull and needs constant correction.i think you're doing the right thing with precious and keeping it to your road at the moment.maybe try and deal with her other issues separately ? Good luck x =D>

bigbear1tracey

@Gypsy123 thank u just about to take her out now let's see if she does as well 2nd time lol xx

bigbear1tracey

Second walk went fab she seems totally calm and different today in herself it's amazing think I made a big back threw with her .

Gypsy123

Great news @bigbear1tracey =D>

bigbear1tracey

Thank u @Gypsy123 I'm so happy she's had a good calm walking training process even had kids passing on scooters bikes she alert but no aggression just a silly wiper ing noise so just walked away from them lol she's shattered .

BulliesofNC

Here's a pretty good training video which talks about the Bull Terrier breed. Take note on the collar used -

bigbear1tracey

Hi @BulliesofNC now confused why is the prong collar all the way down his neck when it's says it should be up behind the ears thanks for the video .

BulliesofNC

I think it just slid down and the trainer wasn't too worried about where it was positioned because it's apparent that Bull Terrier isn't pulling or out of control in any way. The collar has little effect for this Bull Terrier and in my opinion he doesn't even a training collar at this point. I'm confident this Bullie could get by just fine even on a thin looped show lead. Chances are they just put this pinch collar on for the video just to display their tools and techniques.

bigbear1tracey

Cool got u on that one I was very proud of my sophie tonight cause I walked her on a thin rope looped lead tonight what a good girl she is lol .