Skip to content

Breeder / Pedigree Research for Precious

This discussion was created from comments split from: Too many snipey head Bull Terriers.
- Steve Gogulski
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com

Comments

  • Precious head shape and this is meant to be the sire papers I will see if I get it sent to me image
    20150502_230411-1.jpg
    2322 x 2047 - 2M
    20150427_213012.jpg
    4128 x 2322 - 4M
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    Looks like most of the bloodlines are from "Emred." Two separate Line breedings too. The parents of the your pups father shared the same mother. 

    Your pup has a nice wide muzzle which most like to see. The bottom jaw meets with the top so the whole muzzle looks correct.

    Sophie actually has an overshot bite which is giving her that smaller pig jaw look. It kind of reminds me of a sharks mouth with the lower jaw further back. An undershot or underbite would actually make the muzzle look thicker. More people would prefer seeing an undershot vice an overshot because of the appearance to the muzzle. Sophie may have an overbite but it isn't real bad. I have seen a lot worse.

    Now a days people want to see big heads, thick even muzzles, with nice cheekbones. Couple these features with slightly shorter nose and a nice roman style head. "The Football" look as they call it. A nice fat football.


    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • All of your bullies are stunning and thank u @exiled she is amazing she's settled in fab with the right correction and disalpine she's realising the behaviour she was allowed to get away with is not the correct manner I'll post the video later what the people sent me no correction at all just allowed her to do as she pleased with there other dog next to young children .I've always known sophie does not have the perfect head but she's got a fab nature and we love her no matter what @BulliesofNC I've not had the time to go threw breeding lines and am a novice to this but now I'm even more confused u say the father shared the same mother as the pup I thought that was the pups fathers papers I had the dams sent via email but it's not clear for me to see the paper work on both r completely different I'm going to chase the breeder up .
  • This was the other one I was sent @BulliesofNC if u zoom u can just about see she said the 2 that was sent are mother and father pedigree one u have seen this is the other
    Screenshot_2015-05-04-13-23-38.png
    1920 x 1080 - 1M
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    @bigbear1tracey - You have good reason to be confused because now that you have shown me a completely different pedigree than the first one which was supposed to be the father I am confused too. Not only am I confused that neither pedigrees match each in the case of the actual sires pedigree but I'm more confused how your breeder could mix up the pedigrees in order to cause the confusion. Seems to be a lot of weird things going on with how the puppy was sold, resold, age, pedigree, etc.

    The last pedigree actually has me confused as well. This pedigree is actually what's called a Litter Certificate. AKC provides these as well for those breeders who wish to purchase one during the time of litter registration. One of the things that concerns me is the fact that your breeder provided you with the litter certificate obviously to show you the pedigree of both parents on one document. The litter certificate would almost mirror your puppies actual pedigree except it would obviously contain your puppy listed first with her registration number. Looking at this litter pedigree I can't help to notice that it appears aged with the folds in it as well as many creases. It also seems very strange that the top portion was cut off in the photo so that the litter date could not be seen. Might be just me but I'd speculate that this certificate is older than puppies. I also find it very odd that you still do not have the actual registration papers for your puppy which would at least tell you the names of the actual sire and dam. If your breeder has the Litter Certificate than they surely received the individual puppy registration papers.

    According to the latest pedigree your breeder provided you they are stating that Activior
    Enuff Alredi at Kilacabar
    is the sire of your puppy. Well this particular stud is 9 years old right now. The Dam, INFINATE DREAMS AT DARKRIN is actually older than the stud she was mated to. I'm not saying this is a phoney Litter Certificate but I'm confident it is many years old. Unless of course they bred a 9 year stud to an 10 or 11 year female.

    I think your breeder is a bit shady and probably is good friends with the person you got your puppy from who has already been proven to be full of lies.

    If you look back at the first pedigree that you provided which was supposed to be the Sires pedigree you may have noticed they deliberately cut off the photo where you can't even see the Sires name. With this said, there's no telling who'd pedigree this dog is for.

    In short, I think you're getting played by a breeder who is providing bogus pedigrees. I'm willing to bet you'll never even see registration papers for your puppy because there most likely isn't any. If you are provided registration papers God only knows what parents are listed and who the TRUE parents really are.





    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • @BulliesofNC thank u for taking the time to read threw things for me my jaw was on the floor I went back into my emails and realised I hadn't screen shot ed the whole of the first pedigree it has date of birth etc at the bottom I'll post a better photo with all info the breeder said that the sire to the pups was emred devils advocate I think u r right I've been played big time also there was a date on the second paper I posted saying April 2011 what the he'll image
    Screenshot_2015-05-04-16-44-43-1.png
    1080 x 907 - 509K
    20150426_160927.jpg
    4128 x 2322 - 3M
  • There's date he was registered at the top I think I don't have a clue .
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    You've got a lot more patience than me. I'd be pissed at both people; the one you got the puppy from and the breeder. It's evident your breeder is just providing you with with some old erroneous pedigrees and a couple photos of some show dogs. I'm confident if you go visit the breeder you won't find any of these dogs at her residence. You could always contact the owner of the "said" stud and question them in regard to the breeding and production of the litter. Being that it was recently they should know everything about it. However, I highly doubt this is the actual sire of the litter. Puppies born that are black brindle and white like yours are usually produced from a sire or dam that is either Brindle, Tri, or Black Brindle.

    What is the reason why you do not have the registration papers for your puppy? In the event someone is claiming to have lost them you can always request that the breeder register the puppy for you which can be done online without any paperwork. There should be NO excuses why you can't obtain the registry papers in a timely manner or have your breeder register your puppy within minutes.

    Sadly I think you're dealing with a scammer.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • @BulliesofNC I am really pissed off but I don't know what else I can do apart from try to contact the sires owners but I only have a name and address I can see if there is any way to contact them maybe threw kennel club but where do I start the person I bought her off said they was waiting for papers themselves but remember they lied about how long they had her saying 2 weeks when it was 2 days I'm trying to get hold of breeder but no joy at mo I have to take some responsibility for this myself not looking into things properly and I think u r right I've been scammed precious is here now and we love her very much it did raise a eye brew when I asked the breeder how much she sold her for she wasn't cheap but I put it down to being a bit cheaper because of the age we was sold and tge cheeky buggers I bought her off charged us more than they paid not alot but a little thank u again if u know of anyway I can track down the owners by tge pedigree please post .
  • @BulliesofNC got a text back from breeder saying she not recieved the papers back herself .
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    edited May 2015
    If that's the case she's lying about the whole thing. I don't think you'll ever get the papers if she hasn't gotten them by now.

    Here's the contact information for the supposed Sire of your puppy:

    Website:  http://www.emred.co.uk/
    Owner:  Russell & Doreen Lamonby
    Phone #:  01782 392021 or 01782 397121
    Email:  russ@lamonby99.freeserve.co.uk



    Is this the ad where you found your puppy? - http://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/four-stunning-english-bull-terrier-pups-from-emred-devils-advocate/1096198708
    If this is the same litter that your puppy came from the add says they are KC registered?




    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • OMG thank u @BulliesofNC no that's not the add I've just had a message I asked if papers had been sent she said that she's not recieved them yet when I asked why because they moved to the uk from Ireland so there female had to be imported over and she only registered litter the other day She said her female is called darkin class act and precious kc name is Safari sunrise .I will definitely ring them thanks again .
  • @BulliesofNC I have just spoke to Russel the owner of emred devils advocate he said he can't say a 100 per cent he has or has not mated his dog with the breeders female I got precious from but he said for me to ring the kennel club give all the details I have and they will be able to tell me if these two dogs did breed so I'll do that tomorrow thanks again steve heals said I could call him if I needed any other help which was nice .
  • @BulliesofNC I have just spoke to Russel the owner of emred devils advocate he said he can't say a 100 per cent he has or has not mated his dog with the breeders female I got precious from but he said for me to ring the kennel club give all the details I have and they will be able to tell me if these two dogs did breed so I'll do that tomorrow thanks again steve heals said I could call him if I needed any other help which was nice .


    I know Russell and Doreen if he can help you he will where did you get puppy etc as I know a few show people in the breed who maybe be able to help
  • @roman I got the puppy from Leominster but the breeder is from montgomery thanks I will take u up on that offer if I get no were with the kennel club tomorrow .
  • @roman I got the puppy from Leominster but the breeder is from montgomery thanks I will take u up on that offer if I get no were with the kennel club tomorrow .


    Best of luck also is there a bull terrier club in your area as if you contact them they will help you if they can as most bullie breeders are protective where there dogs go but there Is always someone trying to make money they sicken me
  • I need to look that up tomorrow because the breeder is based quite away from me so it's something I need to look up I don't know how they wanted to part with her she's so adorable and loving . It's sickens me too .
  • Nothing but respect to u for taking her on and she is in no doubt a better place now
  • What age do u reckon she is
  • @roman well according to the breeder she's 5 months and one week now she's just starting to loose some teeth so that could be right but I had 3 dates of birth on vets papers pet plan and microchip wtf they was the 7th 18 th and 21st December the breeders said she was born on the 7 th thank u that was a nice thing to say I saw a bully that needed a good home that's why we got her that she could be forever instead of being pushed from pillow to post because some stupid person bought a dog and then couldn't handle her what a load of bull .
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    If she's 5 months old than the claimed stud was breeding with two seperate females in two totally different areas. Of course they both could have been surgically artificially inseminated by use of a frozen semen shipment. However, if the breeder is having difficulty obtaining registration papers and having confusion about the actual parents I highly doubt they conducted an AI. I'm still at loss as to why the breeder sent you a litter certificate with a 9 year Bull Terrier and 11 year old dam and mentioned them being the parents. :-?


    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • Thank u @BulliesofNC for opening a new thread for precious hope I didn't of offend anyone for boy cotting the topic sorry guys . I'm really stumped I can barely read the litter certificate cause it's so blurred or maybe my eyes do not work to good lol this whole thing makes no sense I going to get on to the kennel club soon as I get back from school run steve thank u so much for bringing things to my attention the fact is not all dogs are kc registered so people who do not have them kc registered should stop being stupid and tell the bloody truth but no they hope by mugging people off that they can get more money and then can't back it up .
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    @bigbear1tracey .... At least dogs are better than people, no?
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
  • ive just spoke to the kennel club and still at a loose end the breeder told me she moved here from ireland which is correct according to the kennel club as they r waiting for the irish kennel club to send paper work the breeder has started to register her female darkin class act with the uk kennel club but they r waiting for some more info which means the litter can not be registered until the dam is . they looked up the sir and there was no record of him mateing with her dam but they said that does not mean they havent i asked how will i know for definante if they did she said the breeder of emred devils advocate would have signed something cant remember now what it was to say his male fathered the litter so i just need to give it more time i think as not sure what else i can do .
  • @BulliesofNC i just had a thought could i be right lol ive come on my laptop so i can see the litter document clearer its the irish kennel club and as the breeder used to live in ireland i have a feeling that is preciouses mother litter certificate from when she was a pup just gone threw my emails again and it says mother and fathers pedigree this is a mission when i dont know anything about blood lines its very confusing .com sorry for driving u mad 8->
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    Any breeder that would have looked into finding a champion stud for breeding purposes would have surely had the responsibility to ensure their own female was registered prior to any thought of breeding. Additionally, NO owner of a dog with merit and earned champion certificate would even consider breeding their stud with a female that was not registered or health tested. I can guarantee you that neither of the studs your breeder claims to be are the sire ever came near your breeders residence. Those that own health tested studs that have any reputation will ensure they have their stud DNA tested with certifications, sperm counts confirming their fertility, health test records, and accurate stud records showing what type of breeding was conducted, when the breedings occurred, a witness to the breeding, whether the breeding was successful, date of litter birth, how many puppies were born, etc. Stud records are mandated by AKC for breeders and inspected during routine visits and inspections. I'm confident KC registry is even more strict than AKC. For the stud owner to have confusion about what female their stud was bred to is absolutely amazing. There shouldn't be any difficulties researching any breeding especially one this recent.

    I think in due time you'll conclude that the breeding was conducted by a deceitful breeder from two mystery Bull Terriers that were unregistered. It's best now to simply just love and respect the puppy for the good natured cute thing that she is.


    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • Thank u @BulliesofNC for all your help and input into this topic I'm very grateful as I know u r a very busy and u have replied with detailed long messages so thank u again and I shall just enjoy my girl if anything comes on it if I receive any documents I'll let u know but I won't hold my breath ..
  • I must say I'm very confused by all this,I know absolutely nothing about breeding but common sense would say that the owner of the sire would know if his dog had been mated with Precious 's mother????or am I being stupid?surely he has detailed records!!Anyway ,that aside,I'm sure you're just going to get on with it and enjoy your new baby bullie.you may never get answers :-/
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    :-bd   I'm just looking forward to seeing updated photos of Precious as she grows and matures. :D


    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    www.bulliesofnc.com
  • edited May 2015
    The thought that runs through my mind when reading about your dog Precious is that you need to enjoy the dog that you bought.  A dog that is sired by a champion would be thousands, and there would be a waiting list. There would be records of each single dog sired by a champion.  Could one of those dogs wind up available in hours from some online pet finder site...anything is possible, but so unlikely.

    If you adopt, rescue, or buy a dog for less than thousands, and you find it on some pet finder or rescue site, one should probably not expect to have a fully registered champion bloodline dog.  If you want a dog of that caliber, you have to pay for it and you have to be screened by the real breeder.  It just doesn't happen the way you got Precious.

    There's a saying, "You get what you pay for."  If you pay less than two-five thousand BP or $$, you get a dog without papers or one with papers from a backyard breeder. 

    It is what it is.  Do you love Precious?  If so, then enjoy her and know that in the future if you want a champion sired dog, contact the real breeder of the champion dog and ask how much their puppies cost.  Decide if you like the temperament and health of their dogs, then get on a list and start putting money away and get in line because it's going to be a while, maybe years before you'll be able to claim one.  Expect to be bound by a contract of a reputable breeder of show dogs to demand that you feed them a certain diet or take them to a certain vet, etc.  It won't be finding one of a pet finder site, hopping in a car and rushing to claim it. 

    With all due respect, it sounds like you found a BT cheaper than one that I've ever seen from a reputable bloodline.  With a reduction in price, it usually means reduced quality or no papers.  SMH

    Why do you even need papers, really?  If you're not showing her or breeding her, then you don't need papers.  If you wanted papers and a registration, you should have had it in your hands before you exchanged money and drove off, no?
  • And by the way,she looks gorgeous =D>
  • edited May 2015
    @exiled just to set the record straight we all love precious very much I was never bothered if she had papers or not that's not why I got her I saw a ebt that needed a good home and I was there to give it to her we was told things about the pup which I believed to be true age vaccinations how long they had her I needed to get in touch with the breeder as I needed her vaccinations card but the breeder had to give permission for me to have these details when I got in touch with her all different things came out about the pup she was older than I was told she never had all her vaccinations and tge people had her 2 days not 2 weeks like they said to which I'd been told I contacted the person who I bought her off and confronted her on the phone but she would not abswer the phone so i texted and left voice mail about what I'd been told she told me the breeder was lieing I didn't know who to believe the breeder said she would send me paperwork for precious I told her no I didn't need it as she was just going to be a pet nothing more then my mind started going over time and I began to worry had she come from a puppy farm because of all these lies and she was very aggressive when we got her I rang the breeder and told her how I was feeling and what i was thinking because to many lies I'm a honest person and I expect people to be the same she told me who the sire was then she sent the pictures of the pedigree of the parents which was on the photos I posted she said it would take a couple of weeks but she would send me the papers to put ny mind at rest so i said ok I would like to have them I contacted the ad people where I got precious and told them what had happened because I fill people who lie about animals should not sell them I told the breeder to that I had reported the people as I didnt think it was fair what my girl had been put threw I never heard a thing from the breeder then I thought r they in on this together then in a discussion on one of my threads it came up about the papers which made me look into things to see if the breeder is being truth full so hence why I contacted the sires owners and they can't tell me if there sire did or did not breed with precious mum for defo because theres no records really kept I'm happy to leave things now she's a beautiful girl and I really hope I'm not being judged because of the way I bought my dog that would really upset me because I just wanted to give a good home to another ebt that needed it .I just wanted to get the truth that's all its ever been about not having a dog that had champion blood lines as I wouldn't of expected that from a run down area where we got her all my dogs I've ever had have been dogs I've saved and taken on because someone else got them and didn't want them . And iv always picked up the pieces from these dogs and turned them into loving family pets .
  • And I also did take all your comments into consideration exiled I just want to enjoy my girl now and share happy thoughts and photos .
  • After reading your reply to me, it seems like you adopted Precious for the same reasons that I adopted Rodney.  While my husband met the breeder and parents of Rodney (and the people and BTs are all amazing!), there wasn't any need for papers for him because he was to be a pet.  He had been neutered, so there wouldn't be any litters and he couldn't be shown for most categories.  I LOVE him.  My husband and kids love him.  My parents just came over asking how they grandbaby is.  It sounds like you, too, just want to enjoy Precious and give her a real, loving home.

    It is absolutely shameful if you've had those experiences.  Whatever site allowed this to take place is a black eye on dog breeding and the welfare of dogs.  Absolutely disgusting.

    Your vet should be able to figure out which vaccinations to give to her to bring her up to speed.  I know you will incur additional expenses for each shot, but it's worth it.  Your vet will know (or should know) if it's okay to give Precious a particular vaccination, even if it's possible she might have had it in the past.  Considering people were passing her around, it seems unlikely that they invested in even having her seen by a vet.

    What has your vet said?  Are you in the UK?  I don't know which preventive medications are used there, such as Trifexis here, but do get her on a regimen to protect your current dogs and children.  I'm sure you're already planning on doing that, so just saying that just in case.

    If you only wanted the truth, isn't it sad that they had to try to spin the tale of her champion background?  If they had just told you the truth, they should have told you since you're saying you wanted to adopt her as a pet, not a show dog or to breed.  The truth is really hard for a lot of people.  What the worst is when people lie when they don't even need to lie.  If you weren't breeding her or showing her, then you really only needed her medical history.  Maybe they'll confess and tell you the truth soon.

    She is a beauty, and she sounds like a good pup that you're getting molded to fit in with the family without papers.  That's better than a badly behaved dog with champion papers, as we all know. 

    This is a great place to share pictures and talk about how much you love her.  We all love our BTs.
  • edited May 2015
    @exiled thank u for her replie I wanted to get her vaccinations card as when I spoke to the breeder she told me she got her first shot done so I thought by getting that I had proof which i do now have to get her 2 nd jab and it would be quicker to get her out rather and start the whole course again as I'd spoke to my vet and her getting out later and her being even older but because the way they did her jab one of them has to be left 4 weeks before the next so she's booked in this Thursday for that so she can finally get out end of next week finally she's coming along a treat she's so funny and yes it terrible the way these sites allow people to sell pets and lie I am in the uk but my vets would have done first jab and then the 2nd 2 weeks later but it's because of the nobivac l4 that has to be 4 weeks the person I got her off just wanted the money and rid of her I payed £ 550 for her which I know is not alot they made out they would only let her go to a good home what a load of bull they would of give her to any one that's why we went and got her so quick thankfully she's come to a good home rather than going into the wrong hands .
  • We got lucky in that my BT had a tag that we knew it had at least been vaccinated for rabies and since they neutered him, we assumed that the vet doing the procedure probably gave him some shots.  There were a few that were probably a double dose, done twice instead of once, but it's safer to do it than risk him getting sick.

    It's still a lot of money.  If I asked you to burn that much money, we would all acknowledge it's a lot of money!  Precious looks like a fine dog, and you got her for a good price, all things considered. 

    I love my rescue/adopt BT like he's a million-dollar-dog that I got for a steal.  He's worth the million dollars to me, but I got lucky and the wonderful breeder chose us.  It was a match made in heaven, and I'm hoping that you one day feel for Precious the way that I feel for Rodney.  I've posted this picture before, but I'll do it here because I hope it shows just how much in love my entire family is with Rodney, and how much in love he is with us.  He's family, and Precious is your family.  One day soon, the nasty behavior of the people that had Precious before you will fade from memory.  Precious will make sure that she fills your mind and memories, leaving no room for the other people that had a wonderful dog, but messed up and let Precious slip from their hands.  That's how I feel with my baby Rodney.  He's such a ham.
    about to kiss you.jpg
    1103 x 677 - 64K
  • @exiled Rodney is amazing and I can tell how much u love him and can see his love for u a match made to be together we already love her so much she has a home forever with the rest of the tribe and I wouldn't change a thing I believe things happen for a reason and even thow I'm not happy about how precious was treated if she hadn't been where she was then she wouldn't be here so I need to stop feeling angry about these stupid people and enjoy my girl as we r can't wait to finally get her out thow yes £550 is still alot of money but what I meant was here in the uk u can easy pay £800 up to £1500 for a ebt puppy and the cheeky gits had the cheek to charge me more than they paid lol .even today I had a look to see if the ad was still up as I've heard nothing from the site I reported and honestly the amount of bullys for sale is heart breaking people get them and then realise they r hard work and decide to get rid so wrong but that's another debate .
  • edited May 2015
    I forgot to say it's good that Rodney was done I'll be getting precious spayed just as sophie is and chaos will be getting done too as soon as he desides to lift he's lazy leg up lol
  • You're good to go now!  As soon as she gets the vaccinations, she'll be running with her pack.  It was awfully cheeky to charge you the full price, and I have to believe there's a spot in hell for people that abuse innocent animals and people.  A higher power will take care of that, and we can enjoy our puppies.

    Good for you for getting them spayed.  Hoping the time you have to wait for the vaccinations to be finished to get here soon so that you guys can get outside.

    I have friends in various parts of England and they all seem to have had different experiences with BTs than I have.  It's a different conversation for another day.  Enjoy Precious and the joy she will bring to you.
  • Thank u @exiled I've always had my dogs spayed and neutered as I would never want a accident to happened within any of my dogs . I to believe that whst goes around comes around I know it was a cheek but even more cheeky they charged me more than they paid from the breeder it wasn't alot more but it's the front of them probably got them a few more beers I shall enjoy my girl can't wait to get her out to take her too the beach go hiking threw the farms and meet all the farm land animals as I did with my other pup it's going to be so much fun can't wait well its a good night from me as I need a early night give all your beautiful bullys a big hugs and a billions kisses and remember how lucky our bullys are to have such loving homes and to be loved as much as they r ...
  • philsergeantphilsergeant Palm City, Florida, USA
    As long as you Brits vote responsibly tomorrow (actually I am still eligible to vote but it's a bit of a schlep from here).... I'll be happy knowing there's a better future for EBT's in England!!!
    In the beginning God created English Bull Terriers, in the image of EBT's, God created all other breeds.
Sign In or Register to comment.