Dirty Paws, please help

Chicothemush

I have a white 2 year old terrier, that keeps licking his paws, and after the first year his paws started to change colors and look like their dirty all the time, the vet said it could be from the food we are feeding him, any one else have this problem, any suggestions?

BulliesofNC

What food are you providing him? Can you post a photo?

Could be a skin allergy problem or yeast problem. The front paws are a common place where Bull Terriers initially see problems developing from skin allergies. Very curious what foods he's eating.

 

Chicothemush

He currently eats blue buffalo life protection formula, healthy weight adult. Could there be too much protein in his diet and that's what's causing the discoloration? Then again you could be right because he's always had an issue with his skin and its sensitivity.

Chicothemush

These are the only I have right now that you can see the paws a little but once I get one I'll take better ones

philsergeant

I would believe it's diet and bathing. Too much protein leading to yeast infection. Does he have any ear yeast infection/ wax problems? What else does he get to eat besides the Life Protection kibble..?.. but you might want to try switching base food and cutting out anything else with protein, add vegetables, Virgin coconut oil. A good food for Bullies is Pure Vita.... Make sure he gets nothing with sugar. For bathing I would wash him once a week with Etiderm Shampoo and bathe his feet with Borax/ Baking Soda twice a week at least.

Can we get a close up shot of his feet, particularly his nails.

Chicothemush

philsergeant

Yes, you will know that you are on top of the excessive yeast issue when thos nails are a close to clear as possible.... no red.

philsergeant

Ideally the nails should be all "clear" without any red... I know this is harder to achieve with all white Bullies
(excuse Marco's grubby paw, they had Bag Balm rubbed on them this morning and it always makes them look greyish)

Chicothemush

What would you recommend I'd do for that?

BulliesofNC

Blue Buffalo life protection formula is a good food. However, my recommendation would be to use only the Wilderness brands of Blue Buffalo because they are the only ones which are Grain Free.

Phil provided good advice and he's correct in stating a high yeast concentration within your Bull Terrier. Some Bull Terriers are hard to get 100% free of the yeast buildup you can see in the root of the nails. Your Bull Terrier has an excessive amount though which could be lowered to the point you wouldn't see discoloration on his fur and paws.

A daily supplement would also be a wise choice. I'm confident with a change to his diet and the suggested bathing's it'll make a world of difference.

Chicothemush

I had him on the wildernesses brand and he bulked up cause of all the protein, would you recommend another food? Also what daily supplement would you recommend?

As for the bathing, do I use regular arm n' hammer baking soda or is there a specific brand I should try? Do I just rub it into his feet, should I let the baking soda sit for a few minutes?

Djammy

I hate to be the spoiler here and in NO way intend to destroy your hope. Just try to encourage you and prepare you for a LONG way to go!

The others are right, it really looks like yeast overgrowth. We had a good discussion about it here already:

http://www.bulliesofnc.com/BTforum/discussion/1974/connection-between-yeast-overgrowth-and-nutrition#latest

Many dogs have those reddish nail bases and many dog owners never realize this is a problem, because the dog never shows and signs of it being a problem. I myself notice it in sooooo many Bull Terrier photos on the internet, because I am kind of focussed on it right now.

But even if your dog is not itchy so far, it’s a good thing to take a closer look at this issue.

Unfortunately yeast is something that needs time to resolve and not every cure is working equally successful for every dog.

In any case it is wise to look into different factors as the others mentioned, because the yeast overgrowth is a sign of something underlying going on.

In many skin issues of Bullies nutrition plays a key role. So this should always be on the examination list.

Even if you are already feeding a “good quality”, grain-free food, that sadly still does not mean it can be excluded as the or part of the culprits.

Djamila is currently dealing with yeast, too. No itching or biting, but it is there on her nails.

And the past months of treatment have not been conclusive so far. At one point I thought I almost had it, then it stagnated and returned. It goes back and forth. The list of things I have tried so far is a little longer.

I would not deem any of the remedies tried (ACV, coconut oil, miconazole…) useless. However one thing is for sure: Whatever you use, you will need to be consistent and veeeeeeeerry patient.

Treating yeast is unrewarding. And there will be times you will not only feel it stagnates, but even gets worse than before.

I am not at the end of it so far and will go on trying to get a hold of it. But I am also prepared for maybe getting to the point where I can only accept and control instead of completely cure it. The only thing I will not do is “nothing at all”, because under the right circumstances the yeast can be involved in far worse conditions. So it HAS to be controlled for the sake of the pet’s health.

Djamila is on raw food for about 6 weeks now. And her coat looks and feels just gorgeous - it’s soft and shiny and she is very energetic and looks healthy overall. The vet has also just deemed her “healthy”, not even mentioned the nails as many vets don’t. However she still has those red nail bases and a bit of discolored hair between her toes.

She is also eating fish oil, yoghurt and vitamin supplements. But I think it is time to accept that while BAD nutrition can potentially make your dog sick and a good and balanced nutrition will aid your dog’s health, the good nutrition will still not be able to work wonders overnight.

@philsergeant

It’s interesting that you mention to actually AVOID protein with yeast problems. Where did you get this information?

Every candida elimination diet for dogs I know so far is practically based on feeding quite an amount of animal protein (mainly from meats and eggs) and cut back not only on sugary fruits, but more importantly also on starchy veggies, as the starch is also metabolized by the dog’s body or the yeast (I don’t remember) and used by the yeast to feed from.

Whey protein however, is a different case and indeed suspected to promote yeast infections. I don’t know exactly how. But this is why I am currently thinking about cutting out the yoghurt for a while I am giving her for probiotics that are said to AID in yeast overgrowth. Because yoghurt contains whey protein. Arrgh, it’s complicated.

Another thing are plant based proteins, which are not as digestible for dogs as animal proteins to my knowledge and therefore not as valuable to the dog’s nutrition as animal proteins are. But I am not sure, if plant proteins do play any role in yeast overgrowth.

Long story short:

While you can feed your dog (some) vegetables, they should never be the main part of your dog’s diet. That is at least what I now so far.

But I am always happy to learn otherwise. So I would be very happy to hear more about your knowledge about protein @philsergeant. I mean your dogs are clear, that speaks for itself.

Helping to keep the situation under control is keeping your pet dry and clean. Using medicated antifungal shampoos or sprays, like philsergeant mentioned.

There are like a million good products on the market. My philosophy is to concentrate only on a few ingredients at a time to have better control when something unintentionally makes the situation worse by adverse reactions.

Washing your dogs bedding frequently and keeping the feet, skinfolds and arm pits dry are another means of at least keeping it under control until you - hopefully - found the underlying causes and a cure. Some use disinfecting wipes for that purpose. Because yeast LOVES the dark and humid spots. I towel dry Djamilas paws when she has been walking in damp grass etc.

@philsergeant

Marco’s claws look great! I really hope to get to that point.

Quinnofhearts

This is a classic yet almost severe case of a yeast infection.

Djammy has given you some good pointers, however, in my experience (Quinn had something very similar to your dog, though not as severe - she had the discoloration of fur, smelly feet, brown nails) yeast was relatively easy to treat.

First, start with the diet. You need to get your dog off grains. Yeast feeds on sugars. That's going to include fruits and carbs/grains, so you've got to go grain-free. Fruits are nearly impossible to avoid in kibble, so those may only be given sparingly as treats or otherwise. One thing you will find is also nearly impossible to avoid is sweet potato. Sweet Potato/yams are in nearly every dog food and is considered a better carb for dogs than the likes of oats/rice/etc. But yeast loves it. Stay away from sweet potato-based treats and if you are picking a new kibble, make sure that sweet potato is pretty low on the ingredient list. I am as confused as Djammy though...proteins should not be avoided in the case of yeast. Just sugars. The only time I have heard that proteins should be avoided or limited is in the case of kidney problems and even that is debatable...
Quinn is on Acana grain-free and we have had great success with this food. I don't really care for Blue Buffalo...I believe it to be an okay food that is easy to obtain and is easy on the wallet, same as Taste of the Wild. But personally I won't feed my dog either (my dog grew up on TotW, btw). Acana and its sister food, Orijen, are some of the best dry foods out there, not only in my opinion but in many others...

Second...a trip to the vet may be in order. Do NOT let them talk you into steroids. Steroids do not help yeast infections and steroids just...don't help in the long run. We were given some medicated wipes called "Phytovet" adn have Chlorhexidine in them, an ingredient mentioned here and in other threads regarding yeast infections. If you can get something similar, I personally would recommend this topical treatment as it helps with the irritation and cleanses the skin as well.
Quinn was treated with these wipes twice a day on all four feet, and gradually moved to once a day until we ran out of wipes.

I am not a fan of overworking the dog's skin or doing too much at once. I do not bathe Quinn frequently and don't plan on it, and I don't believe bathing helps in the case of yeast because yeast thrives in moist or damp environments (I'm willing to bet your dog has brown goop or coloring between his toes or in other folds of his skin such as armpits). Keep your dog dry and be sure to wipe his feet after coming in from walks or playtime, especially if grass is dewey, damp, or if it has just rained.

For maintenance after you get the majority of the yeast managed, I would recommend coconut oil. You will need "unrefined virgin organic coconut oil." Really the most important part is that it is unrefined, otherwise you won't be getting the good stuff your dog needs. Most coconut oils will be "virgin" anyway, but be sure to look for unrefined. Coconut oil can be given orally or topically, and will melt at higher temperatures (mine stayed liquid all summer because my apartment was hot [over 70 degrees] and is now solid as we've moved into the cold) but it doesn't really matter what form it's in. And it smells good.
Quinn is given  one spoonful a day (I just eyeball it), orally.

Honestly the management of yeast will probably be a lifelong thing, but I would not consider it difficult or something you'll have to stress over once you get this knocked out. Quinn's nails are clear with just a smidge of brown at the base. I can only see it if I push the hair back at the base of her nail. Her daily coconut oil is what is really crucial for her in keeping it from flaring up again, and the only time I really have to think about being careful is when I buy treats. I stare at bags of treats probably for a good 10-15 minutes trying to pick one that doesn't sound like dog candy or just plain crap.
So long story short: Get a good dog food, careful when you pick treats, keep your dog clean and dry, and pick a supplement to keep the yeast at bay. And that's it!

exiled

My BT has more allergy issues than yeast, but some of the same changes seem to work for both issues.  Douxo wipes/pads that you can use to wipe the paws are available on Amazon and work great.  @philsergeant had recommended Etiderm shampoo, and it is also available on Amazon.  The link to the discussion that @Djammy posted does have a lot of great advice.

almcneil

Tugg's paws looked the same way and he licked them obsessively when he was on Blue Buffalo Wilderness.  I switched him to California Naturals with Kangaroo meat and he's perfect now.

BulliesofNC

@Xtracho - This was the discussion I mentioned to you over the phone.

Xtracho

Thanks Steve. Those images look just like Maya's feet. So I checked her food and sure enough, the dry is chock full of sweet potato. And her wet food either has sweet potato of plain potato in it. Did some basic checking online and it is hard to find a kibble or dry that has no sweet potato or plain potato in it. I suppose the best course of action is to research and find the food that has the least amount of either in in. For the time being we have taken her off the dry kibble ( Merrick's).

philsergeant

Yes, We also ditched everything that contained sweet potatoes ... made a big difference.

Xtracho

I did find a dry & wet food without ANY potatoes with the help of the good people at chewy.com. It is Zignature brand. Their dry is 4 & 5 star on dogfoodadvisor. The wet has not been rated. Ordered today. We shall see how Maya does with it.

BulliesofNC

Orijen is another option. - http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/orijen-dog-food-adult/

Here's a good listing that may be of interest: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/grain-and-potato-free-dog-foods/

Xtracho

Hey Steve, I checked the Orijen also. We fed them that before I made the mistake of going to the Merrick's. In the ingredient list for the Orijen I saw Selenium Yeast. Yes it is way down the list but ntil I get more educated about it anything yeast related makes be hesitant. It's probably no big deal. We will see how the Zignature works. I also ordered the pads and shampoo that exiled recommended.

jcurtis

R u sure its selenium yeast OR SELENIUM THE VITAMIN NUTRIENT cause I read they got EXCELLENT VITAMINS FOR OUR DOGS IT BETTER 80$ FOR 28.6 POUND BAG just think WE CAN EAT IT. SAYS FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. haha not ate dog food since I WAS A WAY YOUNGER LITTLE KID. SELENIUM IS A NUTRIENT LIKE ZINC I think zinc n it too. IM LOOKING. its THE NUTRIENTS AND ALL THE VITAMINS I shouldn't have to give her one I DONT WANNA OVER VITAMIN HER. I think mine is the red. Orijen red puppy formula MIXED WITH TOTW FART FORMULA..... Ive almost got miss OFF DOG BISCUITS SHED EAT THISE AND NOT MUCH FOOD SO iVE BEEN HARDCORE on that. She's been eating dogfood.

Xtracho

Selenium Yeast. But probably of no consequence anyhow. Just being overly cautious....or paranoid....some people would say.

Djammy

@Xtrachto, believe me, you are not paranoid ... or we both are. I know exactly how you're feeling.

With Djamila the yeast issues so far are more of cosmetic nature than they would be a real health problem. I mean, she doesn't smell, she's not itchy, no excessive licking, no secondary bacterial infections, no inflammation or something like that going on. But I am experimenting and trying my very best still on the hunt for the underlying cause. Hoping some day I will maybe able to mend the imbalance in her system causing it by means of nutrition and hygiene. I think, some people would also call my fear of yeast and secondary infection, antibiotics and steroids - paranoid. But, I've seen it with our former dog. Poor thing, she often was so miserable.

Just like you I am also very wary when it comes to 'yeast-suspicious' ingredients, I read and research and I try to exclude everything that could promote the overgrowth.

So far despite my efforts I was not able to resolve the situation. Her nails and small spots have started to vanish and then re-occurred, not matter what I have tried so far within the last months.

Some people say yeast is really easy to treat. Well, I envy them for being that lucky, because that is not my experience.

Right now I am taking the next step: Djamila is already eating a completely raw diet for 8 weeks now and is doing great! She loves it and is full of energy. Aside from the colored nails and her small spots on ear tips and muzzle she looks really good! Overall very healthy, shiny coat ... and the funniest thing, even the fur on her paws looks really nice and white and the skin is not irritated.

From the current batch of her raw food we just made yesterday I have excluded sweet potatoes, because I have heard so many yeast and allergy related stories about them. Also excluded pumpkin this time, just in case, because I read it ranges among the more starchy veggies. Instead I have only included low-starch veggies (carrots, broccoli, green peas) and we will see how that works out.

Although I was not able to get to the core of the issue so far, I am feeling like all of the things I am doing (100% raw homemade food, homemade treats w/o added sugars, adding fish oil, yoghurt and vitamins to her diet, good hygiene and a fair amount of exercise) are all helping to keep whatever it is that causes the higher yeast levels and maybe an impaired immune response is currently under control.

*Happy sigh* I think sometimes it helps a litte to appreciate the small achievements.

Xtracho

Thanks for that. We got Maya started on the potato free kibble yesterday. We also began with the wipes and medicated shampoo. She was already getting a mix of kibble, canned and raw food. We just substituted the old kibble with the Zignature potato free. She loves the raw, especially the green tripe. I figure it took a couple months for the yeast to do its dirty work, so we will give it a couple months to subside. She is not in any distress and other than the occasional licking of those paws it is only the discoloration that gives evidence of what the yeast is causing. I'll post a before pic later today and hopefully have an after pic when I get home from Brazil after the first of the year.

This thread is of particular value to me and I am sure to many others. Just goes to show you how important this forum is. Thanks to Steve for all his hard work on putting it together for maintaining it.