Bull Cross

venger

I attend Game and Country Fairs where they have working Dog shows.

Also shows put on by Working Terrier Clubs where different types of Hunting Dogs are shown.

There has always been a small but dedicated group of Bull Terrier cross Greyhound Lurchers.

A Lurcher is a running dog crossed with a working dog.

Among the working Terriers there is a category known as Strong Dogs.

These are the bigger heavier Dogs which were used in Trials work in Ireland until the 70s when they were banned.

There is a Bull Type category.

This covers pure bred Bulls and dogs which very closely resemble pure breds.

There is also a Bull cross category.

The most popular crosses are Bull x Wheaten and Bull x Staffie Bull Terrier.

 I find the crosses interesting.

One of the toughest looking dogs I have seen was a Bull x Wheaten.

He was built like a burly Bull Terrier but with a wire type coat.

Just wondering if anyone else has seen a Bull cross they liked.

BulliesofNC

Venger - Welcome to the Forum. Good subject you brought up. Personally I have never seen any of these types of crosses. Here in North Carolina we refer to these mixed breedings as "MUTTS." That small dedicated group with the Bull Terrier / Greyhound mixes must have some some ugly dogs. I can't see why anyone would wish to change or alter the English Bull Terrier. There are many bloodlines that carry more of the working lines with a stronger and more predominate Terrier look to them.
I can't see any reason in the world to cross a Bull Terrier with a Greyhound for the purpose of developing a better hunting dog. Ok, I can see that you "might" create a dog that can run at a slightly faster speed but you've taken away a lot of the fearless hunting factors and drive as well. Terriers have been historically known for their drive. Back in the day when people used to gamble along side a ring betting on how fast their dog could catch and gather rats it was the terriers that were used. Later down the line the cross breeding for a type of dog that could be used for hunting bigger game became popular and Bull breeds were used to give the dogs more power, muscle, and strength. The fearless Bull Terrier emerged and was used for Bull baiting. Bull Terriers were also used for hunting big game like Boar. To this day people still use them for hunting game like this. If people are crossing the Bull Terrier with various other dogs for specific purposes I'd be interested in knowing what those purposes were and how they offered an improvement towards their goal. From the examples you mentioned I can see no reason other than to provide a different look which will happen anytime breeds are crossed.
If you have any photos of these cross bred Bull Terriers, please post them.

venger

First,

It is none of my business what type of dog any man keeps.

If it does what he wants it to do then it is a good dog for him.

I would pay decent money fo an EBT that could do a strong dog role.

But There are none I know of working in Scotland or Ireland.

One of the reasons I learned how to work the internet was to try and find working lines of Bull Terrier.

But I am having no luck.

The last Good one here was a dog called RED HAND OF ULSTER.

That was in the early to mid 70s.

Now its either Staffies or Wheatens or APBTs.

The EBT cross was a Lurcher used for deer.

Only a couple of older boys keep them now, probably more for sentimental reasons, as everyone else uses the APBT cross.

Some boys still prefer to buy off established lines of crossed Strong Dogs.

Thats their preference.

Some of these dogs can come out very EBT looking.

Pure bred EBTs here are only show dogs now.

Thats up to them.

They are usually too bully and more often obese.

Their bones are over thick for an agile or speedy Hunting Dog.

Australia seems to have good workers left and cross EBT /Greyhound as  part of their Bull Arab hybrid.

Anyway if you know of a good working EBT site I would appreciate it.

venger

I meant to add.

Adding EBT to Wheaten was a mix that worked well.

The EBT brought the habit of working in sileence, which was a necessity in Strong Dogs.

And the Wheaten kept the fire.

With Staffs having a quarter EBT brought a longer legged dog than the KC Staffs who tended to throw short legged a lot of the time.

However these days the EBTs available here dont have the hardness or gameness they once did and are not a popular dog for work.

BulliesofNC

@Venger - You need to share some photos of these cross bred Bull Terriers with us.

As far as Bull Terrier Working Dogs I agree with you in regard to not too many of them truly fitting the category as a working dog although Terriers in general are a working breed. Often a Bull Terrier that has the drive and stamina to be considered a good working dog have a lot of Terrier in them. However, therapy dogs are working dogs and they are often calm and relaxed and often lack energy and drive. I'm assuming this is not the kind of working dog you are referring to.
A couple of my Bull Terriers definitely have all the drive, energy, and intelligence that fall in suit with the working dog criteria the some feel to be an important characteristic for a Bull Terrier.

venger

Aye ,well as long as a dog pleases the man who feeds him then it meets its need.

As for pictures you are going to have to give me a bit of time.

I am only now learning how to work a computer and it takes me an age to type a post with the middle finger of my right hand.

Putting up pictures is in my future.

However if you check out the Bull Arabs on Australian Pig Hunting Sites you will see Bull X Greyhounds.

I am having trouble finding pictures on Bull X Wheatens.

Though if you check any Non KC working Wheaten Lines its fairly certain that some Bull was added at some stage even if it was a long time ago.

It was common practise for a long time to add EBT to a line to help keep them silent when working as Terriers have a tendency to open up when excited.

There is also a book called Irish Game Dogs which pictures some 1st crosses.

A big Red dog from Portadown direction called Red Hand of Ulster is on the net somewhere I have been told but I have had no luck finding him yet.

He was a pure EBT and I have a very old photo of him I will put up if I can.

I know colour isnt important for a worker but Reds are my favourite colour of all Bull Terrier Breeds.

I dont support Dog Fighting.

But before the APBTs came to here and fell into the wrong hands the 2 most famous pit dogs were Psycho and Stormer.

Unfortunately Ireland always had a tradition of that.

Anyway Psycho was a quarter EBT and 3 quarter Staff while Stormer was a straight cross.

I may be able to find a Site with pics of them if I keep searching.

Stormer ended up beating Psycho.

Stormer went from here to England .

Psycho AKA FBKs Hagler was widely bred from into lines of Non KC Strong Dogs.

He was sort of the Father of the Irish Staff experiment.

I have been told Eastern Europe is a stronghold of Hunting Bull Terriers where they have been bred specificaly for hunting big game.

I havent found anything on that yet though.

venger

The Kerry Blue, long viewed as Irelands national dog, has long fell out of favour as a working dog in Ireland.

So long I havent met anyone who remembers a real good one.

Now unfortunately they have a reputation as bad tempered man biters here.

Usualy its the man who feeds them that they bite.

But many Farmers like to keep one as a guard dog.

However I believe that in America they have been kept alive and kicking with fanciers breeding them for their traditional Hunting and vermin controlling abilities.

Same with the English Airedale Terrier which is no longer a worker at home.

I would imagine if there was any kennels breeding for Hunting type abilities then America would probably be a good place to find them.

If it wasnt for American breeders hard work a lot of Dogs would have lost both phenotype and genotype the origional breeders gave them.

Quinnofhearts

So I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this, but I found these pictures online that claim to be a "bull terrier x border collie" What do you think? Interesting seeing a BT with merle. Though I'm thinking there's Great Dane somewhere rather than border collie....

philsergeant

Accidents happen. I sure hope nobody allowed that poor little thing to be created on purpose. Beautiful creature, as all creatures are... I hope she has a home that loves her. Hard to say what she was bred with because the EBT features are dominate.

Quinnofhearts

Yes, I'm hoping it was an accident...there were no picture of other littermates and no stories about how she came to be. Some crosses of EBTs look interesting just because the EBT is so unique itself, but i definitely don't want people to make habits of it...