wrestling with an EBT

NoraGroeneweg

Can you wrestle or play fight with an EBT?  A friend gave us their's and I know he raised her well.  However when my husband or I have tried to wrestle or get her stirred up she bites way too hard, either clamping down and not letting go, or little snips that get just a tiny bit of skin (I haven't determined which hurts worse).  We have always had Pit Bulls so are no stranger to strong bites but this is a whole new level.  I was wondering if this is something we can work with or if it just isn't recommended for this breed due to enormous jaw strength.  We take her for walks/run/fetch, etc we have just always wrestled around with our dogs in the past.  

philsergeant

Hard to guess with that much input. How long have you had her, how old is she, does she show any aggression to other dogs.??? An adoption is sometimes harder as you can't know their full history. Possibly she is unsure of your intentions and feels threatened. Dogs behave strangely when they are insecure... My boy trusts me totally and I could do "anything" with him.... Our girl sometimes pulls her lips back when I'm about to cut her nails because she is petrified of it for some reason... I admonish her down and make sure I never inflict pain ... Often just filing.... But I can never be 110% with her because she has that insecurity. Keep providing input and keep "wrestling " gently but never to the point you feel any fear otherwise she'll feed off that.

BulliesofNC

Bull Terriers don't like any signs of violence or aggression. They can get worked up fast and confused as to how to react. Years ago when I used to wrestle around with my 2 boys (who are now grown and out of the house) if one of my Bullies happened to be in the area they would always get between us all riled up and wanting disparately to snap at one of us just to stop the mayhem. It isn't like like they are wanting to snap due to aggression but merely to stop the acts of violence they are witnessing whether it be playful or not.
Wrestling with a Bull Terrier can bring on the same confused excitement that can lead them to snapping. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of Bull Terriers that recognize the difference between play and true aggression but then again there are plenty who don't care to differentiate between the two. They go into a protection mode whether it be to defend their owner or to defend themselves. They are a loyal breed and wish only for love and affection. Show them anything aggression and they will often return the display.

exiled

I've never thought about it before, but wrestling play is not how I've ever played with a BT.  Our Corgi loved that sort of stuff, making it like a belly rub, or just pretending to bite.  The BTs have been more on guard, or just don't like it.  It's like they "bring it", but not in an aggressive way, more like, okay, you want to play rough, let's do it.  It's still playing on the BT's part, but it's painful on my end.  There's no shortage of play in our BT, but we avoid anything that might involve accidentally biting or our hands near his mouth.   

NoraGroeneweg

Thank you for the responses. This was extremely helpful

kat

Wilma, my 18 month old EBT is the same way. This dog is so loyal and loving (cuddly) but when it comes to playing with me she is way to aggressive and bites really hard usually breaking my skin if she gets a good nip in. I have tried to rough house with her since she was just a pup but she gets jacked up really quickly. If someone is dancing or running around in the house...their getting nipped for sure. When she was younger she had an aggression issue with dogs we fostered but she is fine now. I have an old BT that will play with me. He will hucklebut around and he tries really hard not to bite to hard but he does from time to time. I know he doesn't mean it and he looks real sheepish after he's done it. But, I would love to get on the floor with Wilma and wrestle around. Is there any way to teach them gentler play and not to bite so hard? Does anyone have a bully they full out wrestle with?

philsergeant

I have never had this problem with any of ours. When they are young it's hard to stop them from being playful, although we discourage them from doing it indoors, mostly by not being playful with them indoors. But when they jostle around and hucklebutt they never use their teeth, they mouth somewhat, but that's about it. I think the trick is, from very young, to admonish them every time a tooth is used. This also when they take treats or tablets etc. from your hand, we demand that they are very gentle (or they don't get them) by putting them in the palm of our hand and cupping them so they have to work them out gently. Every now and then you can get knocked by a tooth accidentally, like when ball retrieving and throwing, taking the ball from their mouths is sometimes tricky, but as I say, unintentional consequences. It's never too late for a bullie to learn, so start trying to get her to learn to be gentle with your hands and admonish severely when she is not, or withhold the treat.... Don't get to the point where you are afraid to engage, because that will make it worse... Don't forget their mouths are their hands and all communication is through that medium.

kat

Thanks Phil!

Dexterthedog

They seem to react well to a quick sharp yelp with your voice when they bite hard. I would inhale with a quick "yie" sound. This is how puppies let each other know it's gone too far. I've done this with a few bullies I didn't know and it always got their attention.

Djammy

Both methods above would also be my way to go due to nipping and biting.

In addition, I would follow the same plan that is in place for teaching puppies not to nip:

When the dog is "grabbing" me too hard - because like philsergeant said, their mouth is their hand and grabbing is only what they intend during play - I'd not only yelp, but also stop any playful action immediately, just walk away and ignore my dog for a while.

This is a real fun spoiler and your dog over time will get why that happens and how he can avoid the playtime cut-offs. It's only very important that your reaction immediately follows the nipping to give him a chance to connect the dots. Because he has no natural understanding of nipping to be a bad thing.

For him doing it during play is natural. Usually there's no mean intentions behind it, not even dominance.

I would also do the same thing - yelping AND ignoring - when he chases after feet and ankles of people moving quickly in the house. 

Also you can actively encourage positive behavior. You could make this a real training exercise with treats an praise. If you catch him following you calmly when you speed up, reward and/or praise. Just include such things in your playtime sessions. It does not take a lot of time. He will even enjoy it and like it as a game. Because he gets the chance to do things right and be rewarded.

So much between humans and dogs is just a matter of communication. It's about our dogs UNDERSTANDING what we want from them and US UNDERSTANDING what our dogs intend. 

It's like living with a mute, childlike person that does not speak our language. Communication has to find its ways under these conditions. But it's absolutely possible and amazing into which quality communication with a dog can evolve over time.

Although it is often recommended to feed treats out of the open palm - for obvious reasons - I am intentionally feeding Djamila treats held between two fingers. Just like philsergeants method this is intended to teach her to not hurt me while taking the treat. If she starts to nip, I won't let go of the treat.

She has learned the meaning of the command "SLOW!" meanwhile and is taking treats very gently. Still, sometimes she is just too excited - so this is an ongoing thing that needs continuous attention.

Another training game is to switch between hard play and being calm. Your dog should be able to calm down within moments on command. You can train that with treats. Or reward him by another round of tug, if he manages to calm down and take a polite sit for a moment on command.

If your dog has problems to calm down, I would probably rather not engage him in rough play myself in general.

Almost all young Bull Terriers have a tendency to get overexcited, if incited. Usually vanishes a bit over time. But I have even seen old Bull Terriers going overboard. So I guess it's also part of their nature.

Unintended accidents can never be excluded. I myself just love to watch Djamila going nuts sometimes.

And not only are their teeth a menace then.

In moments like that I remove my eyeglasses, do NOT bend over standing and always have my hands ready to protect my chin and nose when the wrecking ball bangs in.