BITING!!!

afarfan12

ok guys so here's the deal.....my 2 month ebt bites alot! is it maybe because he's teething??  he likes to walk in front of me and bite my ankles and whenever i try petting him all he wants to do is bite....i have lost count of how many bite marks i have now  if anyone can help me with this issue on giving me advice i would greatly appreciate it. thank you

philsergeant

Simply a matter of totally discouraging him from doing it. EVERY TIME, instantly, he bites at any part of you, you need to pin his neck to the ground and scream NO! into his ear (without causing drum damage)... and hold him there until he submits.... repeat and repeat,  shouldn't take more than 20 times.. as long as you mean it every time.

afarfan12

ok i will definitely try that....what about after doing that? what should i do?? 

mbgood

I learned at puppy socialization class that pups learn what is unacceptable from their elder dogs/mothers  by the adult dog's piercing response. So when the puppy bites you, you must yelp very loudly, as if in pain. Instantly and every time, and try to sound like a dog yelping. At first it might make you feel foolish, but the pup wants so much more to please you than hurt you. With Murphy, it really only took a couple of days for her to get the message.

You have to be sure to yip loudly even if it was clearly an accidental nip, like when playing tug, to be sure they know to NEVER get the skin! Then ignore the puppy and act as if your pride is wounded, too, for several minutes. They will do their best to make it up to you.

afarfan12

that seems like a great technique aswell...makes sense to do what a dog does...thank you @mbgood

apollosmama

I used the technique mbgood mentioned. Anytime I was nipped I would yell OUCH loud enough to scared the daylights out of Apollo. There was one difference. I let Apollo nibble on my hands and fingers. Once he started biting too hard was when I yelped. Puppies socialize by nibbling on each other so it's natural for them to do it to us. By letting him chew on me he knows how far he can go before it hurts and I get upset with him. Doing this has helped when it comes to small children. I learned it all from the training book I "sell" over and over again. It's called "Training the best dog ever. A 5 week plan". It's on Kindle and in book stores. The authors first name is Dawn but I ca'it throw out her last name for the life of me. The book has a Jack on the cover. Best of luck to you!

afarfan12

Thank u so much @apollosmama that seems very helpful and i will definitely search for that book

philsergeant

That's a great tip, thanx!

BONC_Jacksonville

Could not have said it better apollosmama!

 

chooba

whats worked well for me is as follows......
grab his / her jaw with a firm grip and place your thumb firmly under his tonge pushing down, just enough to make him uncomfortable.
get eye level / face to face and say "NO" in a commanding tone.

Some dogs have to be reminded who's in charge, and some breeds even moreso. Chooba learned quickly.
Although he needs to be reminded from time to time, especially around his vices.........
strange adoring women, and the house cat.

afarfan12

So i would need to grab the top part firmly and put my thumb on his front teeth and push down is that correct?? @chooba

Quinnofhearts

I used a couple different techniques. Unfortunately, mouthiness is just in the puppy's genes. the good news is, he'll grow out of it! (with training of course)

Instead of screaming or yelping, I would use the sound "AAH!" ...or however you type it. Sounds like "AT" without the 't'. It's very harsh and startling, and once I figured out that that got Quinn's attention a lot faster than "no," that's what I went to for immediate correction. Plus it's less weird when out in public.

Another technique: if Quinn's biting became excessive and she just thought it was super hilarious to keep biting me, then she would be picked up and taken back to a bathroom and placed in timeout for a few minutes. Bull terriers don't like to be away from their people. I would not say anything to her when I put here there or when I got her out. If you have the right demeanor your bull terrier will know when you're pissed even when you don't say anything.

Something I wouldn't really recommend but it's something I did (and sometimes regret) is bopping her on the nose. Sometimes she would just bite me and hold on, and I would end it by taking two or three fingers and hitting her just behind the top of her nose, at the bottom of the curve. Quinn's biting was very bad and I often thought I had an evil aggressive bull terrier - but she is my first one and I was only 21. If I had had the resources and help available to me now, I imagine I wouldn't have been so concerned or maybe even so harsh. But she really is a phenomenal dog....

He will get better!! As daft as these dogs seem to be, they really do learn pretty quickly. 2 months is still very very young. Work hard at it and the biting should be gone in a month or two's time.

chooba

grab the jaw and place your thumb under his tongue......its the softest part of the mouth. Your not doing it to inflict pain, just discomfort. I usually hold him as such for a good 10-15 seconds while I direct him as to why wth a commanding tone.
Chooba got the idea quickly.
The method was instructed to me by the VET that I take him to.
The physical nature and discomfort gets his attention, the tone shows who's in charge
@afarfan12

afarfan12

Wow those are great techniques!! I will definitley keep them in mind thank to both of you, i'll be sure to keep you guys updated on the biting

Djammy

The others are totally right, the nipping at that age is absolutely natural. 2 months of age means your little one is now exploring the world and his own body and strength. The muzzle is his hand. Human babys also often examine objects with their mouths. Unfortunately your pooche's teeth are razorsharp. So if he wants to grab you, it hurts. I think it is helpful to understand that in most cases the puppy doesn't mean to hurt you. He just does not have any feeling for that yet.

The yelping method described by others above is very effective. Just give it some time.

Another tip, because they ususally nip a lot during play: After yelping also cease ALL kinds of play and interaction immediately. Just walk away and ignore him. Do this for at least one moment longer than you feel comfortable with.
Bullies don't want to be excluded from the pack. The more he grows into your family, the more effective this kind of treatment will become. And it is not the worst thing to get him used to this rule early: Unwanted behaviour means no more fun and company.
 
I know it's hard with those big puppy eyes. But he needs that pause to comprehend that he is doing something you don't like. Sooner or later he will draw his own conclusions: "Ok, I see, if I nip, the fun ends". And the nipping will probably fade.

After a while you can give him the chance to "apologize", but never do that right away, because then he will get the impression that he's getting away with things as long as he manages to kook as sorry as possible afterwards. He needs to face consequences and the time to understand. THEN you can make up.

I have to admit, I am not the biggest fan of the pinning, simply because in most situations it is not necessary. It intimidates the dog every time. Why do that more often than necessary? I know, a lot of owners are using it and I am convinced that no Bully has ever died of pinning. They are rough natures and most of them can handle it.
I am actually using it myself, BUT ONLY if I am under the impression that Djamila is trying to take over the situation, feeling superior or is not stopable by any other means.
During the 10 months she is with us now I have used it two or three times, that's about it.

I am also doing a lot of clicker training and I am an absolute fan of it. For Bullies it is not the answer to everything, but amazingly effective for positive reinforcement.
There is a great book on the market for that, I think it has also already been mentioned in this forum. The title is: "When pigs fly - training success with impossible dogs".
It's available on Amazon and in other places.

If you do not want to engage in any kind of training yet, you can still do something.
Grab some real small treats and feed them to your pup the following way:
Hold them in your closed hand. Open it a little bit, let him know, there's something yummy. "Punish" every rough action of his to get to the treat simply by not giving it to him/ closing your hand. Everytime you notice him using his tongue...nose... every gentle try...praise and REWARD IT! You will need quite a lot of repetitions before you notice any difference.
Again, he will need his time to comprehend and draw his own conclusions. But you will probably notice change after a while, as long as you are consistent in what you're doing.

Rough efforts - NO treat WHATSOEVER! Gentle trying - immediate praise and reward!

Once you guys have leveled here, you can try this with giving the treat by holding it between two fingers. But be prepared for some bite marks .
Again, rough efforts - NO treat! Licking, sucking, gentle tries - praise and reward immediately!

If the biting gets too much with the treat between two fingers, he is just not ready yet. Go back to the closed hand.
It will take some time. But the advantage is that this method gives you guys also the chance to interact with each other and get to know each other a little bit better. And he is not learning by being punished or intimidated for what he does wrong, but by being praised and rewarded for what he does RIGHT. He will like that!

It you don't get anywhere with any of the methods described in this discussion - also by others - just give it some more time and try it again or use several of them together.
It will not happen overnight, but the nipping WILL disappear as long as you consistently make it clear to your dog that you don't want it - with whichever method you choose.
Good luck for quick results!

OMG, such a long "book" of mine again. I apologize, you guys, for making you read so much.

afarfan12

wow well that is very long but very interesting and important to know....i'll be sure to try those methods that you mentioned

and just a quick update he stopped the walking in front of me and biting my ankles....so thats progress Thank you guys for the tips...

i'll leave you guys here a recent picture of Brunno

BulliesofNC

Oh ya, those teeth look like they could painful! 

Great Photo!

philsergeant

Yeah, he looks like he should be on one of those vampire shows that are so IN with young folk today.

Djammy

Well, that's good news!
He'll also grow out of this horrible razorsharp first set of teeth eventually. Although I also find their permanent teeth amazingly tough. Sometimes when I listen to Djamila eagerly chewing on her rawhide, I get goosebumps and thank heaven that she's not using her teeth on me anymore

DianeWright

Djammy I enrolled our female into an obedience class and found out she was a strong believer of the clicker.  I did not like it from the start, so I quit the class.  I do like you alternative method.  Willie will now sit on the couch next to me while I eat and just wait to see if Mommy decides she is going to get a bite.  She learned quick that poor behavior gets no treat.  I've been teaching her patience.  I can now put her in a down position, put a treat in front of her and use a hand command saying 'leave it'.  She will not got for the treat until I say 'Ok'.  Afarfan12...very cute brindle.  Our female is also brindle.

afarfan12

Thats what i want to get Brunno to do but i know hes to young still....thank you:)

Djammy

@Diane

Glad you are so successful with the method you found for yourself.

I can easily understand how the clicker method can be unappealing to some people. The most important thing is to be comfortable with the methods one chooses to train a dog, no matter which one it is.

I think the greatest benefit of the clicker training anyway is to understand the principle behind it, not necessarily the training itself.

Just for those , who are interested, but didn’t know: 

It’s basically just a very punctual way of conditioning, which was introduced by the Russian nobel price winner Ivan Pavlov (conditioning of dogs, not the clicker training). The Pavlov reflex (involuntary drooling when seeing or smelling food) is named after him.

Conditioning can be done in different ways, not only with a clicker. The  clicker's only advantage is that it makes a very unmistakable, consistently even noise. That means a little bit more of consistency in the dog training than just doing it with your voice - that’s about it.

Dealing with the clicker helped me learn a lot that has nothing to do with a clicker.

For example, I don’t have to spend HOURS every day on training my dog. In fact, every interaction with my dog can be a training situation - and I am using my chances! I try to be consistent in my doing. These are my most important principles now. Far more important than this little toy. 

I also like the NILF (nothing in life is free) principle and consequently use it with Djamila. Works great! 

And the best about it: None of these things forces me to change my ways or spend more time on dog training than I have available. Mostly I do not even have to leave my house! All methods can easily be integrated into everyday life and worked from day one for me.

The clicker is not a practical toy in any given situation - at least that’s MY personal experience. First reason being that while the clicker is great for marking a certain moment, such as putting her tushy down for a “Sit!”, I don’t find it a great help for ongoing situations like “heeling”.

Also admittedly there just ARE situations that cannot ideally be handled by the method of positive reinforcement. I am also convinced that especially the Bully sometimes just NEEDS a firm voice and the mad face of the owner to understand that NOW is the time to stop, what he’s doing. I also proactively take advantage of the fact that Bullies WANT direction, love rules & schedules they can obey, because they thrive when they know they are doing right and know who’s in charge.

According to my experience a lot of clicker trainers are handling critical situations by “managing” the dog, which doesn’t involve the clicker either. They just give them a time out in their crate or keep them on leash, etc.

So my point is: Even the most eager clicker trainer of all, I guess, will not use the clicker ALL the time.

Meanwhile I only use the clicker to clearly mark the “correct” moment for Djamila when we are learning tricks. But I also used the clicker for her basic training.

She loves that training and I love our very close interaction. 

Also the approach of breaking the training down into single steps, if you really want to shape a certain, more complex behavior is a very good essence for me from clicker training.

In everyday life I also use time-outs, firm voice and just try to find the right balance for Djamila between exercise/ entertainment AND quiet periods. I also reward her for doing things RIGHT on her own, like “being quiet”. As I am available mostly all day to her due to my home office work as a graphic designer, this can be a bit more of a challenge sometimes.

Sometimes it is also a good idea to just offer alternative behaviors for guidance. For example, I don’t want her going up on me or furniture uninvited. I am training the “Stay off!” with Djamila (we’re not quite there yet, but getting better). But I am also doing this: instead of commanding her “Off!”, when I sense, she is about to get up on ME, I often just command her to “Sit!” or get “Down!”. Naturally she can’t “Sit” and get up on me at the same time. 

She has already started to understand that I like it better when she sits down in front of me than going up on me. It takes time and patience, but we'll be fine eventually, sure of that. Another advantage of going this way is I do not have to confuse her with allowing her to come up the one time and another time yelling at her for trying it. She learns that coming up is ok, as long as she is invited to do so and staying off or sitting is more appropriate when not invited to come up.

I did the same stuff as you did, Diane, with the food. The “Leave it!” command (this one I did with the clicker, it’s just perfect for that) is especially important to me, because I want to make as sure as possible that she’s not eating stuff off the street. There’s never a guarantee, but it’s definitely easier to handle the situation with a dog knowing the “leave it” command.

DianeWright

Thanks for the info Djammy.  I have no doubt I just did not give the clicker a chance.  I'd never seen it before, and I just did not like it. 

Afarfan12 the worst thing we did with our female was keep saying she was too young for training.  We learned the hard way...the best time to start training is as soon as you get the puppy.  By the time she was 7 months she started showing dog on dog aggression.  She wanted to be the Alfa.  It's much easier on you and the dog if you start training very early.  A 7/8 week old puppy can start learning in baby steps.  Willie exhausted us, and she was not a happy dog.  We feel she will always be 'in training', but she has come so far and now she is a happy dog. Issues with a BT is exhausting to correct and can cause complete turmoil within the household.  I can not stress enough...start training early.

afarfan12

Well the biting is becoming better and better.....so thats a really good sign Now the other thing that is really stressing me out is potty training I try to take him out every 2 hours...but sometimes i take him out and he wont pee or poop but when i bring him inside he pees or poops....any suggestions?? Thank you in advance

philsergeant

Potty is just a a reward and admonishment thing.... Grass/ poop/ treat/praise.... Carpet/ pee/ wack/ no love..... Over and over.
I know of no other way.

Djammy

Potty training is tricky, messy and stressful, isn’t it?

1. Keep the dog around you when you are at home, so he doesn’t get the chance to do his business somewhere unnoticed.

You can either choose to waive yelling or smacking completely and only reinforce when he does right. He’ll also learn it that way. Djamila did.

OR IF you choose smacking in case of an “opsi”, ONLY do it when you catch him right in the act. 

If you missed the moment, tough luck for you. 

But then your dog will probably not understand and be confused, WHY you punish him or yell at him. It doesn’t do any good, if it comes too late. Consequences need to follow right after the action to give your dog the chance to connect the dots. That’s not only true for potty training.

The way I handled it was: Every time I caught Djamila in the act, I’d grab her and carry her outside to the spot where I intended her to go.

This action startled her so much that most of the time she’d stop peeing that moment. Then after one or to minutes outside, she’d finish her business outside.

Great chance for me to praise and for her to understand. Of course, I still had to clean that one part of her mess left inside

Sometimes from the corner of my eye I saw her moving into her pee or poop position and was lucky to catch her in time to avoid it completely inside.

But even when she had already finished her business when I caught her, I still took her outside immediately, telling her so “Go Potty” and remained outside with her for a moment for consistency’s sake and to give her the chance to connect the situation of being outside with doing her business.

2. Going every 2 hrs is a good idea, but may not be enough. Your pooch is very distractible and can easily miss the point. Also once he’s ready to go, he’s not yet able to hold it for too long.

Key situations are: RIGHT after meal, RIGHT after drinking, RIGHT after playing, RIGHT after waking up. No guessing, just get him outside.

This is your biggest chance to avoid accidents inside.

3. Once you reach the place where your dog is intended to go, introduce a keyword, such as “Go Potty!”. It will not work right away and you will still find yourself standing out there like a little girl lost with your dog doing nothing.

Try to find a quiet spot outside. Try stay outside with your dog for a while. Do nothing that could distract him, like playing etc.

This entire process just needs time. With Djamila it took us 10 weeks. Others manage to do it in 2 or 3 weeks. The dogs of my hair stylist took 6 months to get house broken.

Every time your dog does his business outside as intended praise like crazy - your neighbors will think you went nuts, but your dog will learn that potty is outside.

4. When you have accidents inside try to clean soiled spots as thouroghly as possible. A good way is an enzyme cleaner. I use Nature's Miracle Original Stain & Odor Remover, because it is mild for my dog and furniture and carpets. But maybe some of the others here also have some other suggestions for household remedies.

It’s important to eliminate the odor, so it does not attract your dog to do his business in that very same spot again.

5. When you are not at home, keep your dog in a confined area: Room with doors closed, large crate, gated area in your living room - whatever works best for you. Chances are your dog by default will not soil areas he considers his personal space (crate, bed etc.). Dogs usually don’t soil their personal space by nature, unless they are unable to “hold their business”. So if that happens, it’s also a sign that your dog may need to go outside even more often. 

I am working in my home office and during the housebreaking period I felt like I went outside with Djamila a million times a day.

Sometimes it would be a time frame of 2 hrs. in between. Sometimes only 10 minutes.

You may want to try potty pads. You can place them in places around your house or apartment, where you “want” him to go in order to minimize the  damage and soiling inside OR you can place one right in that confined area of his. 

Sadly, if he’ll use it or not will depend only on him. Some dogs feel attracted to the pads, others don’t. They are impregnated with hormones that are supposed to attract them to do their business there.

Some people say they are counterproductive, because they actually encourage the dog to do his business (on them) inside.

My experience is: Djammy used them and I had less staining in other areas of the house and she still got housebroken within a reasonable amount of time. My problem was that at some point she got interested in them for play and started to rip them

Later we decided to introduce a potty bell. This is an interesting thing and really works for us. But it may be too much for the initial potty training. If you like information on that, let me know.

afarfan12

your ideas sound of potty training sound great....i think one of the issues is removing the odor completely...even though i dont smell it maybe he does and thats why he keeps doing it inside aswell....thank you so much @Djammy youve been a great help!!

Djammy

@afarfan12

Happy, if you find help in what I write.

During the first weeks we even had removed rugs and other things we did not want to get soiled. Of, course it's not possible to empty an entire apartment. But maybe some things can be "saved" and put back in place, once the mission is accomplished.

One or the other thing, like a door mat or small rug, you may actually even need to dispose of, after doggie is housebroken. That's our fate as dog owners. There's always collateral damage.

If you feel you can't eliminate the odor enough to make those spots "unnoticeable" to your dog, just try to keep an eye on them. 

It's not only a problem, it's also a chance.

If he really chooses those spots, he becomes more predictable - your advantage!

You may also notice your dog getting clean in one area or room, but frequently soiling another one. Puppies expand "their world" slowly. First he may only consider one room "his home", later the entire house. Areas he does not consider his home are more likely to get soiled.

If you discover such areas, try to be and play there more often with him, if possible. Once he understands that this is also part of his home, he will probably automatically refrain from soiling those areas.

Give that enzyme cleaner a try though, it's really good!

mbgood

@arafan12

We started Murphy (aka Smurf) in a puppy socialization class at 8 weeks--best move ever! By the end (I think it was 8 weeks) she could sit and stay pretty well, but the main point was just to be around other dogs and people. She was tiny compared to some of the others, but would readily jump in with the Great Dane and Boxer  pups more than twice her size for some rasslin'. It was a great first step to subsequent obedience classes, though even now at the end of level II obedience, Smurf does what is asked of her if she feels like it. Otherwise, she may leap in the air for no apparent reason or wriggle around on her back smiling with her tongue out. The other dog owners are either amused or appalled (I can't always tell) but then, they don't have a bully.

afarfan12

The class sounds great...might look into it Hahahah thats funny!