My bully is a wimp!

mbgood

I have been following along in the Random attack at the dog park thread with interest, but we have the opposite problem. Murphy just turned a year old, and we have been going to the dog park regularly. She rarely engages with the other dogs, but only goes up to the other dog owners, tail wagging waiting to be fawned over. Even when romping dogs try to engage her to chase, she will slink down to her belly, ears back and submit. I watch with envy as the other dogs wear themselves out running, while Murphy mostly observes and sucks up to the people. Occasionally she shows interest in a little "accessory" dog, but she is the opposite of confident. She has never been attacked or bitten, and has only been slightly "schooled" a couple of times early on. At her first puppy orientation class, and again at Obedience 1, she was fine to hang with a much larger Great Dane and a Boxer. On the one hand, she is being a great ambassador for the breed--everyone loves her and always asks what kind of dog it is (not many in Minneapolis, I guess) and she eats up all the attention. But I want her to hang with the canines, run off some of that energy! Any ideas?

afarfan12

as a puppy did she spend time around other dogs?? i she didnt then maybe thats why, she's only used to being around humans and not other dogs since she never really had the chance of being around them if that was the case....but thats just my opinion

mbgood

No, she has always been around other dogs. I started her in a Puppy Socialization class at around 9 or 10 weeks. Then into obedience classes after that, and always taking her out to the pet food store and other public places on a leash. She has a poodle puppy friend that I arrange to have her play with sometimes, and does fine one-on-one, same with the Husky next door, romps around freely. She's been going to the dog park since last summer, just rarely engages in "dog play" and seems apprehensive of the pack mentality. If it's just one other dog, she will engage.

afarfan12

Oh wow well then that makes no sense at all why she wouldnt want to play with other dogs

BulliesofNC

It sounds like Murphy is still being a puppy and probably unsure of how to act around other dogs. He may very well feel intimidated or uncomfortable. I've seen some young dogs his age simply drop to the ground and roll over on their back when approached by other dogs. This is an instant submit for no reason other than the dog lacking confidence.
As Murphy gets older and matures so will his confidence. Once he's more sure about himself and spends more time with other dogs you'll notice him joining in more and more with each day. I wouldn't be worried about his personality right now because he's still a puppy and hasn't fully matured. I'd much rather deal with Murphy's lack of confidence or desire to play with other dogs vice see him look for any excuse to attack them. Bull Terrier's are "People" dogs anyway and Murphy probably knows the other dogs don't have the same intelligence as him so he'd rather spend his time with the owners. 

Xtracho

Maya was like this when she was younger...until we got Bear. With the two of them in the house....rough housing....she rarely cowers and submits. Indeed, she instigates a lot of the mischief they get into with each other. And that carries over to the dog park. Although she really doesn't pay much attention to the other dogs and prefers to run together with Bear....she will not cower and roll over any more either. And I agree with Steve....EBT's are a breed apart from others. What may seem to be aloofness with interactions with other dogs is simply their personality and their strong desire to be with people.

philsergeant

Obviously Steve thinks that Murphy has already grown a pair... but SHE probably just needs what Steve suggests... (lovingly) kick her butt over in the direction of the sand pit and tell her to "go play" as much as possible with all support, as long as there are no dogs that attempt to take advantage of her gentleness, she'll get with the program.

Djammy

Murphy is so cute! And a "joker face" just like Djamila.

I know, not all Bullies are the same. But we are in just the same situation with Djamila. And also our last Bully Fancy always was more interested in interaction with humans than with other dogs. She was not hostile, just not very interested in dogs. She would also back out, if other dogs started bothering her. Except when one tried to steal her favourite ball. But even then she showed extremely high threshold and patience before she would upbraid the other dog.

Djamila has been socialized by visiting the dog park since we have her.
In the beginning she acted submissive towards all the other dogs and tried to engage and make friends, equally grazing all dogs and humans for attention. She never really defended herself roughly, although she has already encountered one or the other boor.
After some months her interest in the other dogs started to fade. Then she discovered the balls. There is a tennis court nearby and the players throw their "dead" balls over the fence into the dog park for the dogs to play with. Subsequently even her interest in the dog owners around soon subsided.
Honestly, I still never felt like this behaviour could have anything  to do with a lack of confidence. Especially when it comes to Djamila, who is anything but shy.

Today we are basically going there to play ball with her and my husband often wonders about the sense of that. Djamila is acting like the other dogs are not existing. She is neither cowering, nor aggressive, just indifferent. If another dog wants to engage with her she stands still, waits until the "attempt" is over and then gets back to her ball again. Sometimes another dog approaches her like "what IS that with you and the balls? What kind of dog ARE you? Come here and play with me!" only to learn what being ignored feels like. Occasionally she will run into or over another dog while chasing her ball. Other than that - no more interaction.

My husband calls that "in the zone".

I myself still like to go to the dog park, because she can freely run in a fenced area and is still around other dogs - which I still consider important.
She also enjoys the entire event of getting into the car together, "going somewhere" and then play.

We would love to see Djamila with another Bully some day, just to see what happens.
Sadly, did not get a chance of meeting another Bully in our area yet.
Fancy lived in the same house with another Bully and we'd often let them meet outside to play.
But besides a quick "Hello" sniff, nothing really ever happend between the two of them. I think it will sure be different, if two Bullies live together in the same household. But I have my difficulties to believe that TWO Bullies in one household would exercise and wear out each other completely on their own and would not need human interaction any longer. The both of them planning mischief together - that I have no problem to believe.

The exhausting part for us humans is that entertaining our Bully oftentimes not only requires us to be present to supervise, but rather actively engage with them and share the fun and action.

Leaving her on her own in the dog park and wait for her to wear out her energy together with the other dogs - for some Bullies this just won't do the trick, I am afraid.

mbgood

Philsergeant: Yes, Murphy is still entirely lacking in all parts boy, and I suspect she will continue as such! For a bull-in-a-china-shop pup, she still has her feminine traits.

Djammy: Murphy (aka "Smurfy") and Djamila look very similar--stunningly beautiful, yes?

As usual, it is always nice to come to this forum and hear from the folks here who have been there, done that. Non-bully people just don't get it (poor suckers!). I will continue to take Murf to the dog park frequently both to keep her social skills up as well as to show her that a trip in the car does not always equate going to the vet. Plus, I feed my pride, since she is ALWAYS the coolest dog there. For now I am resigned to have to wear her out myself, and will keep trying to encourage her to go play. She shows no interest in chasing a ball outside (through the kitchen is another matter).

BulliesofNC

Well it's been made apparent I made a mistake in regard to the sex of Murphy but I'm confident my statement about her current and future behavior holds true despite her lack of nuggets.  :-B

Quinnofhearts

I have a similarish problem with Quinn. She loved to play with dogs when she was little. Would romp and run normally, wasn't shy. She found her first tennis ball outside maybe 7 or 8 months old and LOVED it. But she'd still play. After we moved away from her first set of friends, she became more and more focused on her ball, ignoring other dogs but was still comfortable around them. But now within the past six months or so, she wants nothing to do with other dogs. The other day we were down in the park behind our apartment and there was only one other dog down there (a goldendoodle, one that she actually attacked when the doodle was a pup because the doodle kept pestering and biting her with the puppy teeth). But Quinn didn't want to be down there at ALL. She cowered when the dog (now 1 year old) came flopping over to her to play and she sat at the gate the entire time we were down there, probably hoping it would magically open so she could go home. Due to my work schedule we've had to play with just us two for the past few months, occasionally another dog down there. But the anxiety is recent. Not sure what could have brought on her anxiety around other dogs, but I'm hoping that we can get down there more often and she'll learn it's an okay place again when other dogs are around.

Sounds very similar to Djamila. I think if we put Quinn and Djamila in the same park it wouldn't even count as meeting another bull terrier!

exiled

BTs are interesting dogs.  It's like they're not dogs, though.  They are so intelligent and sensitive, and it makes me think that Steve is correct.  She's probably taking it all in, thinking about the situation, and when she's more comfortable and confident, she'll zoom off like a jet.  I can't blame her if people are fawning all over her, that's hard to walk away from. 

Djammy

@Quinnofhearts

I would SO want to see that! I’d be SO curious to see, if another Bull Terrier would make all the difference or none at all.

Just went outside with Djamila and she met the pack of little wool balls (Yorkies ) form next door. Some of them are barkers and they all make a big ado everytime they meet Djamila.

Bully is nice - she lets them sniff her out, standing like a statue, just watching them.

@exiled

I think, they really are entitled “kids in a dog suit” for good reason - they sure ARE, in every respect. Currently at home we love to have Djamila repeat her latest trick “waving good bye” while spreading her toes with raising the paw. Even hubby can’t get enough of it. And the only reason is: Because it makes her look so human

Sometimes it even feels odd to me watching her “handling” things just with her mouth - just like dogs do it - and NOT using her paws, because she uses them a lot and that often lets her come across like a little child discovering the world.

Desiring more interaction with humans than with other dogs in general and in extreme occurrence in some Bull Terriers may just be part of their nature.

I mean we are constantly talking here about how different they are … maybe they just feel it and act accordingly.

I agree with you and all of the others, however, who say that it is still not the worst idea to have them around other dogs every now and then in order to prevent development of anxieties etc.

@mbgood

“Smurfy” … and I thought it could not get any cuter

The Bullies in public are always the rockstars and people love them. That’s what we have always experienced in the U.S. with our Bullies. And we like it, not only because it is so different from the reaction of people back in Germany.

By the way, if you need any tips regarding Bully entertainment, I and I am sure others here too, will be happy to share their experience. Maybe there will be some inspiration for you.

As for the balls, of course not ALL EBT’s are the same, but my personal experience is that not ANY ball will do it. And I am not talking about safe and unsafe balls. I am talking about the personal preferences of your Bully - so sad that we can’t talk that over with them, but rather have to go through trial and error.

I don’t know, which ones you have tried already. But maybe having others tell you a little bit more about the toys and things they use for entertainment or searching this forum for that topic could help you get some ideas.

ptennant

I think its so sad when you see a breed being destroyed. As a kid, I loved dobermans and bull terriers. I had both as a child. Now as an adult, I looked in to a Dobie, but what breeders have done to the breed was heart breaking. They have turned it in to a puddle looking dog. Very refined, skinny, and weak tempered. 

Now bullies, are not as popular a breed, and I thought at the time that the breed didnt yet suffer from irresponsible breeding. Well I was wrong. I have a wimp too. He's scared of squeaky toys, the vacum cleaner, and other dogs that are more Alfa. Such a weak temperament. As I have looked online, it seems many people have this problem with the breed. They should seriously consider removing the "fearlessness" atribute of the breeds character on the AKC. 

I got mine from a judge down in Napa Cal. He had an umbilical hernia, that was operated on. I didnt mind or anything, but when she said it was fine for me to breed him, I thought "what a shame!" How irresponsible, and shes a judge! Yes I looked her up! How sad.

ptennant

While I love my jack, im not a fan of the breed any more.

BulliesofNC

@ptennant - That's sad to hear. Not about the change within the breed because I disagree with you. I see far more aggressive EBT's being bred than I do any timid and shy ones.

Many would much rather have a Bull Terrier with a temperament like your Bullie than one that was aggressive to the point they have become a dangerous liability like many APBT's.

I own many Bull Terriers and not one would back down from any dog that wished to initiate aggression with them and I know it would be a bad day for that dog for the wrongful thought and action. Squeaky toys around here wouldn't last 30 seconds before they were destroyed with the high probability they were eaten as well. Turn the vacuum cleaner on and I have Bullies standing in line in hopes I will use the wand to vacuum them.

I can't say much about the breeder you got your EBT from but I can tell you that I have a hard time believing they were an AKC Judge that Sold puppies with Full Registration allowing them to "blindly" breed their bloodline without a care in the world. It doesn't sound like the normal practice of any reputable breeder that cares about the future development of their bloodlines.

As far as breeding a Bull Terrier that was born with a herniated umbilcal, I'd have to side with your breeder. Umbilical hernias are not uncommon within this breed and they are rarely the result of genetics. Many breeders don't realize the need to cut the umbilical cord as soon as puppies are born and tie the cord with dental floss to help prevent hernias from happening. Instead they simply allow the momma to do all the work and in many cases (especially with stressed momma's) they will not only bite off the cord and eat it along with the plasenta but they will bite it off so close to the stomach which prevents it from healing properly and often causes the hernia. The same thing can happen with people too, except we can them outie belly buttons. There's good reason why doctors tie the cord when babies are born. Unfortunately some breeders are unaware of the risks they face by sitting back and doing nothing when litters are being born.

Anyhow, my sadness comes from your statement of not being a fan of the breed any more. Based on your assessment of recent and common temperament and character I believe you are casting judgement on a rare and uncommon Bull Terrier that I (and many others) have no familiarity with.

If you'd like to see some proud gladiators feel free to stop by for a visit with our family of Bullies. No squeaky toys though. Even Kong balls are of no match for my crew. 

exiled

I have to add that Bullies of NC is breeding absolutely amazing BTs.  We have a rescue that had been in multiple homes in a year, and despite that, he is so confident, healthy, beautiful, curious, goofy...just perfect in every way that makes a BT so special.  He bounds into the dog park with a confident trot and never shows fear when encountering something new.  He isn't aggressive, either.  We laugh constantly with his antics, and he eats it all up and will play all day. 

I hope you don't give up on the breed.  There really are breeders that are breeding excellent BTs.  Even if it's only a handful, there are still some out there.  When we were looking for our second BT, I had given up that I'd ever have another one and was actually quite depressed about it until I spoke with Bullies of NC.  If you read the forum, you'll see that there are many people on this forum whose lives revolve around their BTs.  I know I love my little guy and wouldn't trade him for a million dollars. 

BulliesofNC

@exiled - Thanks for the kind words. It's great knowing how well Rodney is working out with you and Jeff. He couldn't have found a better home.

BONC_Jacksonville

Thanks

exiled

Everything I wrote is true.  Rodney is fearless, without a doubt, and I find him pretty close to perfect.  Thank you to both of you and your families for breeding amazing BTs.  The breed is truly indebted to both of you and your families.

mbgood

I had posted this between the Djammy post on June 21 and the latest thread starting on July 13th, but it disappeared. That must be when some site maintenance was happening. In any case, there has been a funny twist to my wimpy bully tale (tail?). At her last Obedience II class last week, we had a substitute trainer who happens to have a mini Bull Terrier, Juno. The class was not a complete disaster, though Smurf is only obedient when it suits her. One by one, the other dogs went through the Canine Good Citizen drills perfectly. Then it was Smurf's turn. She ran leaping in the air across the floor, picked up the first orange cone she came to and trotted off with it in her mouth. Everyone was roaring, which just fed her clownishness. She tossed a laminated sign ("turn right") aside and flipped on to her back rolling like a worm on a hot griddle. (she did not pass CGC this time) The instructor completely understood, and after class, he brought his mini BT in to meet and greet.

For the first time ever, Murphy was fully engaged in another dog! They ran and leaped together like long-lost family, and had the exact same mannerisms. She was apparently just waiting to meet a dog more her equal, worthy of her attention.

The dog park has even held more interest to her since then.

philsergeant

A beauty like her deserves to wait for her equivalent!!