Advice Appreciated for Obedience Tips for Oscar

pgreid

Our little deaf boy Oscar is now just over 15 weeks old - a beautiful and sweet baby bully, but with all the customary problems that come along with the breed!! So far we have managed to train him through hand signals to sit, stay and come to us - very time consuming but he picked it up failry quickly.  However, the one area that is causing us problems is the nipping and biting.  Whereas with previous bully pups I found that a good nip on the neck until it stopped, along with loud 'NOs' was failry effective, it just does not work with this one.  In fact, pinching the back of his neck and holding him down results in what I can only describe as a tantrum of gargatuan proportions and a fresh assault with even harder bites (scars can be posted if wished!) Clearly we need to stop this, but we are finding that the lack of voice control removes much of the effectiveness of any discipline.

We have met a regular walker who adopted a deaf Staffordshire Bull Terrier from a puppy and who is now 4.  He ended up buying a vibrating (NOT electric shock) collar with 3 strengths in an attempt to train his dog and I was wondering of anyone has had any experience of these?  I have always been dismissive of these in the past, as for me it was an option for lazy owners to resort to, but we really need to stop this behaviour as it is getting progressively worse and more painful for us as the weeks go by.  By the way, he is fantastic with other dogs and strangers to the house and is a very loving dog for 80% of the time, but these crazy spells do happen daily.  Any advice welcome - thanks guys!

Stoeger

I'd pin him. Use my forearm along his body to keep him pinned till tantrum was over.

If after you let him up and he attempts to nip again, pin him again in the same fashion.

Repeat until he submits.

Our pup is still a bit mouthy but he quits it after a quick pin.

Oscar wants you to be happy, you have to let him KNOW you're not happy.

Unfortunately, puppies test and learn about their environment with their mouth.

Boyda

I would try the vibrating collar, it should at least distract him. Have you tried reaching out to a deaf dog resource and see what pointers they might be able to share? Stoeger gave good advice on the pinning, it is a pain in the butt to do, but it is a great method. At first he might super struggle against it, but you have to pull through and not let him up until he submits to you.

pgreid

Stoeger, unbelievable! 3 treatments of the pinning and he's a different pup! I'm sure we're not out of the woods yet but at least we got a hour of peace with him lying at my feet without nipping. Thanks for the back up Boyda, we're searching online for a collar.

pgreid

Oops sorry Stoeger forgot to say thanks a million!

Stoeger

Don't thank me, I got the same advice from other members of this forum.

Anyone on here would have given the same advice if they had read your request before me

I am glad to hear that you've had some success already! Stick with it, it's a great way to get the point across when a Bullie is doing something undesirable.

Meatball

I once read "never ever allow your Bully to do something you do not want repeated..even one time.  If you do...the Bully will never extinguish that thought.  That said, Bullies do not train in the standard method you see people using on almost all other breeds.  I have had several tell me to pop my bully with a rolled up newspaper.  Yeah right.  Like  Bully would ever be motivated through "pain."  I don't think Bullies experience physical pain as we do...unless you are trying to trim their nails. Then they will poop on you.  Or squeal to tell the world you are abusing them before you ever lay a finger on them.  I have found shame and disapproval worked wonder for Meatball as she so wanted to please the companion owners.  But swatting her in any fashion>  Guaranteed to produce the opposite result.  And I don't think a shock collar has any value either.  Defiance to what they do want to do is a Bully trait.  I have heard of people using the citronella spray collars.  I suppose you could put pretty much anything in it not harmful.  As for Meatball...if it involved a food treat in any capacity...she would and could learn it in 5 minutes flat.  She loved her scooby snacks. Gently encourage the pooch, reward, reward, reward, and praise, praise praise, praise the behavior you want to see.    

apollosmama

I would let him chew on you! Just let him nibble on your hands and give him a little shock when he gets too hard. It is just in a dog's nature to mouth, but he has to know his limits. I can shove my hand in Apollo's mouth (like today when he had too small of a piece of bone) and he won't bite down. This comes in handy with little ones around too. Since Oscar can't hear if you say "ouch" the gentle shock will let him know.
Also, as said above pin, pin, pin!!!! Hold his little arse down until he calms. He has to know that YOU are in charge and he gets up when you say so! Good luck!

Jmallar

Ok so Roxanne is our love. The only thing she does we just cannot seem to get under control is her bitting/nipping/jumping tearing clothes. We have tried everything and she comes right back with "oh yeah well take that" attitude. I block her with my knee, sometimes it works long enough to distract her other times (most) she isn't phased. I know she is teething but this is more than teething. Advice - please

philsergeant

That little beauty can come over and nip at me A-N-Y time! ( as long as she stays :-)  )
There are many strings here that talk about "pinning" her every time she misbehaves... As long as you admonish her EVERY time she jumps up and nips, and praise her EVERY time she approaches you gently, it should only take a couple of weeks to break her habit.  I can tell from that cheeky little face that she is in the "PEAK NIPPING" phase of her life ... so this is the very best time to break it.... Do a search [top right] on "Pinning" and you'll find everyones' technique and experiences.

Jmallar

She is cute isn't she
I think I need to see -pinning that is ,maybe I am doing it wrong. And yes omg peak is putting it mildly. She is ruining our clothes. When I do try to pin she is aweful and growls and try's to bite.

Boyda

It doesn't look like she can do a wink of harm in those pictures, so I'm having a hard time believing your stories! Hehehehe! On a serious note, when it comes to pinning the trick is to not let her up until you let her up. If she tries to bite you can "sit" on top of her and you'll hold her head between your hands while her body is between your legs. This is a more extreme way to pin, but you don't want her to ever get away with biting when you are trying to reprimand her bad behavior. She'll get the picture fast and soon you'll just have to roll her over for a pin instead of a full on straddle. Hope this makes sense.

pgreid

Hey Jmaller I have to say that since I got the advice about pinning the problem with Oscar has moreorless disappeared. There is the occasional relapse but as phill sergeant says, you MUST react every time! Yes, you may well get tantrums,sqealing and attempts to bite and it is exhausting but it really does work so stick in there and good luck!
Our next new challenge is that we have entered the humping phase..........

BulliesofNC

jmaller - If Roxanne is growling and getting mad while you're disciplining her or pining her than she's under the opinion her actions are going to be tolerated whether you like it or not. Bull Terrier puppies can be thick headed and stubborn as puppies and without strict discipline they can become hyper and hard to manage especially in their first year.
The objective behind the "Pinning" method isn't to go through the motions of holding her to the ground when her behavior required it but to hold her there until she submits, meaning calms down completely because she feels helpless and completely under your control without hope of breaking out of your control. When you release her she should have a look of embarrassment and guilt of her face. She may even wag her tail slowly and walk toward you trying to earn back your love and affection.

Stoges_mom

We still have to pin Stoeger for the same reasons! It helps but as he gets bigger I've had to use more force in pinnin! He gets the idea and when he submits we let him up and he walks away and then back like he is saying sorry. Lol. Stoeger had a routine every night, he does his crazy bullie runs and we play and when he is outta breath he grabs his 'girlfriend'(a pillow) and humps away then he grabs eter an falls a sleep. He has humped every night since he was eight weeks old. Only humps his pillow though so we just let him do it. I hope that's ok.

Stoeger

A quick note on the pinning: I know when Stoeger has submitted because he lets out a big sigh

Leslie

Savannah would put her head in our lap with her nose tucked in repentance. 

philsergeant

@Jmaller.... The Humping Phase... Hmmmm.... that's a harder one to curb, especially if you want your boy to mate at some time in the future (as I do).... Seeing as he lives with his sister it's even tougher....  But, .... you know, there's a reason why women call men "dogs"

Jmallar

Ok so I am releasing her too soon cause I never get the "embarrassed"look. She does sigh but her breathing is still rapid so that means she isn't ready. Ugh I will get it ! Comparatively speaking with redirecting her and I have pinned her a few times this weekend she is a little better but we have a ways to go. I am also trying to keep my frame of mind to "I am in control and not you" rather than frustration. We went to get fuel this afternoon getting ready for the big snow storm and as people walked near the car she groweled and barked. I kept trying to stop her but inside I was smiling because she was soooo tough . But I know this isn't good either. She is so good other wise, she walks/runs with me good, she hasn't destroyed anything, we read her I have to poop signs, she snuggles and sleeps almost through the night in bed with us ,,,,,,,all that besides how beautiful she is. Thank u for the comments. (In the truck today and kissing my husband)

philsergeant

First I'm glad you've picked up on the need to have the right thoughts in mind when you reprimand her,... I know only too well that it's hard keeping cool when your top lip is smarting and possibly dripping a drop.... EBTs are amazing mind readers and its best, when pinning her down to mentally repeat the phrase... " oh thank you so much for this opportunity to teach you the error of your ways, you'll be a much better EBT for it" ... One thing that troubles me is that she barks and growls at other people. To my experience this is never typical Bullie behaviour ... Normally reserved for what I call "annoying yappers" ... Chihuahuas and other spoiled lap "dogs".... EBTs love people and would usually never growl at people... rarely bark either. Lets see what the rest of the teams' experience with this is..... I love that frowns face though!!

P.S. read here about the downsides of encouraging the sleeping in your own bed concept.

DianeWright

Oh, wow!  I am so glad to see this string.  My question.  If I was neglect, and didn't give the proper training when Willie was younger, is their any hope of being able to completely trust her to not get mad at another dog.  We love Willie with every breath, but I have never hid the fact that there was a time we had trouble with her aggression.  (dog on dog)  She is now two.  She is protective towards her babies now.  But before we could let her run loose in the house with Buster.  I do not trust her yet with Claxxton.  Because Claxxton will not give her the alfa.  When she does missbehave, I put her down by grabing one front leg and the opposite back leg to be able to put her down.  Then I keep one hand on her until I feel the breath go out as she gives in.  Then she will lay there until I tell her she can get up.  She is better, a lot better.  But, the wrong thing and she goes on attact.  Food, toys, affection.  I know, I should have worked with the food & toys.  She is obsessive over a toy.  The first thing I had to learn when she started this at 8 mos. was NOT to get excited or yell or yank for her lead.  She would feed off of that.  Now, I just casually (but fast) reach for the leash and tell her no, make her lay down.

DianeWright

Jmallar....it is frustrating, I do know.  But, the rewards are greater.  Your dog is gorgeous!   

Jmallar

When she growls and barks It is was only in the truck ,,,I almost think it is because she doesn't know what to think, she isn't totally boostered yet so we cannot socialize her. When she meets people she gets all excited wiggles doesn't bark or growl. She also will do it when she hears noises on the tv. Also I think she senses my husbands disability and loves to snug him. Awwww maybe she has me around her little white paw. As soon as she is boostered we are putting her in doggy daycare once a week and then getting into the next available training class.

I have had success in two pinning so tonite yeaaahhhhhhh

I couldn't love her more than I do now, she is our everything .

Jmallar

Thank you for all your advise I am putting all in practice .

Jmallar

Here she is again

BulliesofNC

Growling and barking in that type of environment and situation is normal. She wants to feel as though she's seen something that she wishes to notify everyone about. Sounds to me as though she's perfectly on alert and learning through new experiences.

Jmallar

Hi Steve that's what I was thinking too, especially when she does it to the tv in the same way and tone

[Deleted User]

She's real pretty, what a doll

Stoges_mom

Stoeger rides in his jeep a lot and always barks at people walking on the street or occasionally at people in their vehicles but I know it's because he wants their attention! He LOVES people and isn't content until tey acknowledge him and giving him all the love he can take outta them!

exiled

So glad Oscar is thriving and learning his hand signals, and also quick to learn from pinning.  The humping...I've never had a male before, but that's what we're planning to claim as our puppy.  How much humping goes on with male puppies, and is it forever?  After that video from the vet, I've changed my mind about automatically neutering, and planning to get my feet wet with showing our pup, so neutering is out for several years.  Does neutering lessen humping, is it age related?  Sounds like the marking of territory by males is only new environments and Christmas trees, not an ongoing situation. 

I knew nothing of the pinning method with our first BT, and it was hard living through the nipping.  It reduced me to tears with frustration.  They are like furry tanks, capable of pushing humans to their limits.  I gently bit her one time and that was the last time she did it, but I'm going to pin the first time and every time.  Around the age of two, she was a completely different pup, like she matured over night into a mature companion.  I'm prepared this time around, and pinning is going to be used every single time there's bad behavior.  

I don't recall our BT barking much.  She was very sociable and loved everyone and had no problem about anyone approaching her or our home or cars.  The only barking she did was if she was bored or ignored, it was more of an attention-seeking, play with me kind of bark.  How do people handle that sort of barking?  I had a tough time because I didn't want to reward the barking, but I gave in and played with her whenever she did it.  I know that wasn't a good thing the way I handled it, but what is a good way to handle that?

philsergeant

I know a lot of people have had to suffer bad cases of hump-a-lot'ting... Dogs that hump legs, neighbours, cats, pillows, toys..... I really wouldn't know what I'd do in severe cases like that.  With Marco his only subject is his sister and she isn't interested at all so, between her and us, about once a day or s we need to dissuade him and let him know he's pissing us all of and he backs off.... gives us all a VERY dirty look like, "oh! come on, grow up and get real, you see worse than this than on the news"... but he isn't incorrigible.  Marco hardly barks at anything, except to sometimes mirror his sister, who occasionally barks but only when something sets her off like strange noises, deep bass sounds, the hose pipe or vacuum cleaners... but there always a reason which normally, thankfully, goes away in short order. To be honest, with her, as long as the disturbance is there, no matter what we do, she goes on barking.... So I know of no deterrent... Anxious to hear whether anyone else does.

pgreid

Hey exiled, I know what you mean by tears of frustration ( or at least in our case, tears of pain!) But the pinning has worked wonders and apart from the occasional nip at the back of the legs, now it is more like gentle chewing. As I mentioned, it is tiring. He is only 4 months but his strength is unbelievable, especially when you have him pinned and he goes into one of the sqealing tantrums, but stay with it until he just stops and lies still. We then gently put him on his mat and give the stay signal. A couple of minutes later he will usually come over looking sheepish and look for a cuddle. The humping is, thankfully, confined to both of us, only on our legs and usually after one of his demonstrations of tearing round the room knocking half the furniture over - the Christmas tree was out and packed away again the following day after being felled 3 times in an evening! At the moment we are simply pushing him off when he starts, but that can happen a dozen times before he finally gives up. Barking is not a problem with him - except when he's decided it's time for him to eat, so good luck with that one. Attached a couple of new pics so you can see how big he is getting.

philsergeant

Oh My Gawd!  Besides the Dawg! I gotta have that camera!!!!!! What is it?

pgreid

Hi Phil believe it or not it's taken from the I pad!

exiled

Oscar is getting big!  He's gorgeous and extremely handsome!

We're on the wait list for a puppy.  I was referring to my first BT, Augusta, that drove me insane with the biting.  I recall it years later it was so intense, and wanted to agree that pinning sounds like a miracle with BT.  Wish I had known about it back then.  The barking she did was like she just wanted to make noise when bored.  She ate and destroyed just about everything I owned, so she probably had to find another activity to entertain herself, like barking. 

Love seeing how big Oscar has gotten.  My heart is so happy knowing he's in a loving home where he's thriving. 

philsergeant

@pgreid
I do not believe that... my iPad takes crap pictures at best.... You just don't want me to post nice pictures like yours.

:-))

pgreid

LOL Well there you go! Note that the ears have collapsed again after 2 weeks, so we just went through the trauma of taping them up again. What a palaver! Needless to say, his majesty was not amused! And is now sulking on his mat looking sorry for himself and throwing threatening looks!! You have to laugh!
@exiled, hope the wait isn't too long and don't forget to post lots of pics!

philsergeant

@pgreid, Oh! I feel your pain with the constant taping (his annoyance too).... Marco's took close to three months to finally fix and Oscar's ears look so heavy.... such a pity they don't work as ears should... everytime I look at his precious face it's hard to keep my keyboard from shorting out.... But it will be worth it in the long run ... I hope you keep posting and updating... I won't be lying if I say you delight me with words like "palaver"... I hardly ever get hear such diction any more in USA... but as long as I can have stories of Oscar's progress, I'll be happy.  I guess it's the Amsterdam winter light that makes your iPad work so well!

Jmallar

OMG he is so cute!!!!! The pinning is going better, ugh, tonite she was aweful in the pin. Like a phsyco! Then she wimpers. I think she try's to make me think I'm hurting her but I am not - very careful because I don't want to hurt her. She is doing sit, stay and down . Now If we can get it all the time a pond not just when we are practicing. Lots of snow, more coming tomorrow. She loves it but too cold to stay out too long.

She has lost some teeth, that is saving my hands and fingers. At least some times is only get gummed and not sliced. Good news is she goes to the door when she has to go out yeahhaahahahahah!

Stoeger

@Jmallar is there a Bullie in those pics!?!? All I see is white snow... B-)

@Pgreid Oscar looks great! What a hunk!!!

philsergeant

Sometimes I think I miss the winter down here in Florida ............ NOT!!!!.... But Oscar looks fabulous, I think a nice smear of kinda  orange, yellow, ochre color will go well with all that white... what do they call that color again?.... oh yeah, that's it..... MUSTARD!

apollosmama

Everybody's pups look so good! I think Apollo is starting to phase out of the nipping/ biting and hucklebutting. Where he was going crazy a minimum of three times a day were now down to about 3 times a week. I'm pretty sure he heard me taking about the use of shock collars! LMAO!

pgreid

Hey Jmaller great pics she's beautiful. Reminds me of my first bully, Lily, who whenever there was snow would 'Hoover' her way through it continually, so much so that we had to end up having to put Vaseline on her snout! Happy memories!

pgreid

Oscar happily accepts his ear taping!!

Beth1708

What in the world is "hucklebutting"? It sounds lovely and whimsical. 

Beth1708

Oscar looks like a movie star with or without his ears taped.

Jmallar

Awwwww oscar. poor ears. Pgreid, what does the Vaseline do? Is anyone else loosing teeth? Apollosmama, how old is he? I have thought about the shock collar, my husband said no right now, Roxanne is doing better, however I am sure if we could get outside for a good run things would be even better, we introduced the treadmill, didn't go too good. Will try again though. It was -17 yesterday and she has nooooooo desire to go out longer that to go to the bathroom.

Philsargent, some days I don't blame you but the snow is so beautiful

exiled

Go Oscar!  Glad the taping went well.  He is soooooo cute, I love him.  More and more pictures, please. 

He's such a smart guy.  Funny that he chose the spot between the cushion and back of the sofa, nice and snuggly with his upright ears. 

pgreid

Hey Jmaller, her nose used to get dried out with snuffling in the snow so we used to put on a bit of Vaseline when she went to bed - she loved it!
Thanks for the comment exiled. He HATES getting his ears taped, so this was his sulky look. Hope it works second time around! Pics will follow when we take it off tomorrow!

exiled

Speaking of snow, this is a nice video of a black lab and cheetah that are BFFs at the Cincinatti Zoo going crazy in the snow.  You have to scroll down a bit to get to the video.  Hope it's okay to post a link.  If not, let me know and I won't do it again, I promise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525907/Cheetah-dog-enjoy-playful-game-chase-snow.html

pgreid, now that you mention it, Oscar does look like he's sulking a tiny bit, lol. 

pgreid

And the taping results.............he starts flying lessons next week! Can't remember the last time we laughed so much (hence his offended look!)