Sudden and unpredictable aggression?

LBotz

Hi, Everyone

I'm writing as kind of a last resort. I have a 4 year old Bull Terrier named Coda. She has been with us since she was 10 weeks, and according to the breeder, she comes from a very calm and loving line. (I don't actually know if that means anything, but I was told it did). Coda was doing fine for the first year she was with us. At that time, we also had a female Westie, and she and Coda were best buddies. 

A little over a year after Coda joined the family, I got pregnant. Shorty after finding out, Coda's behavior changed. She became violent and unpredictable with our Westie. Without any prompting that we could see, Coda would attack the Westie. We instantly enrolled her in a training program. They kept her for 2 weeks, and worked with us on a few occassions before returning Coda home. Within hours of being home, she attacked the Westie pretty viciously, and we instantly rehomed our Westie in an effort to keep both dogs safe. At this point, Coda was still very kind and happy around people, but could not be around other animals of any kind.

Since our daughter was born, Coda has been a buddy and a protector to our little girl. She used to sleep by the crib, and guard the door to her room. But, in the last couple of months, she's begun to snap and growl at our daughter--again, with no prompting that we can understand. I did consult the trainers again, and they took her back in for  2 more weeks, trying to recreate the aggression, but they were never able to. They said she was stubborn, but very sweet--which is how she is 99% of the time. 

Tonight, Coda was laying on a blanket that belonged to my daughter. Coda does this often. We always just pull on the blanket, and she gets up. Tonight, though, our daughter was tugging on the blanket, and Coda actually bit her hand. :-( 

I'm at a loss here. My daughter is fine, and luckily it just bruised her but didn't break the skin. I don't want to get rid of our dog, but I also don't want the next time she bites to be worse. I worry that keeping her is gambling with my daughter's safety, and I'm not willing to do that. 

Has anyone had anything similar happen? I keep hoping there is a fix, but if there isn't, can anyone recommend resources for rehoming our Coda? Dog fighting is prevalent where we live, and I am afraid of her going to someone who is going to abuse her. She is only having the aggression issues with our toddler. Older kids and adults who enter our home never have issues with her being aggressive. 

I hope I've included enough info. Any insights or info you can offer is appreciated. Thank you. 

Djammy

This sounds serious and I don't think that a forum can help you to resolve this kind of problem. It could, however, help you with the re-homing process, if you decide to do so.

In that case you should give approximate information about your location in order to hopefully find help with that in your area.

Actually, if I were you, I would not only keep my kid and the dog separated. I would also buy a light but sturdy muzzle today and have the dog wear it in the house whenever around my kid, even if I am around. Because bad things can happen in the blink of an eye without you being able to interfere in time, even when standing right beside dog and kid.

I am honestly shocked about the way trainers have approached this issue so far.

How can anyone, who calls himself a "trainer" and even KNOWS what exactly is happening, try to reconstruct this situation in a completely different environment, when it's obvious that in this case reviewing the situation right in your home would be vital, and then assume this would be working.
Also I don't understand why you were only partly included in the training and evaluation process.
Maybe I got this all wrong. But as I read it, that doesn't sound right to me.

This is one of the very rare situations, in which my only recommendation would be to try and re-home the dog into a new home with an experienced owner and without young kids and other pets around. Also it would be important to give as much information as possible about the situation to the new owner. So he can handle the dog with caution around smaller dogs on the street, in the dog park etc. or even avoid those encounters altogether.
I am so sorry also for the dog. I hate when circumstances lead to the dog being the one that has to bear the consequences.

But safety goes first. And this status is just downright dangerous for your kid. I doubt that any form of training - especially not the way it has been approached in the past - will be able to make 100% sure in time that nothing will happen as long as your child is small.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you in terms of finding a QUICK solution.

BulliesofNC

I agree with the recommendations from Djammy. It's evident your Bull Terrier has a serious issue not only with other dogs but with people or children in which she feels she can dominate. Yes, she's a safety risk and poses a liability for you which creates a lot of concern.

I don't think the trainer you are taking her to is doing anything more than kenneling her and letting time pass by. I think your breeder gave you a lot of lip service and probably knew her Bullies had negative habits in regard to dominance and aggression as well.

Bull Terriers are actually within the top ten lists each year for Best Dogs with kids. This alone should let you know that your Bull Terrier is completely out of the realm for expectations that of normal Bull Terrier character. 

I'm sorry you are experiencing this behavior with your Bull Terrier and I hope it doesn't leave a false opinion of the breed. However, I think your Bull Terrier would be best suited in a home with no other animals or kids.

This video provides normal behavior of the breed while interacting with children:

Harriet_R

I agree with what djammy and bullies of nc have said it's a very dangerous situation. I don't think a trainer can truly assess the situation and solve it away from your home chances are if someone is promising you unicorns and rainbows over night especially without observing the situation and possible triggers first hand they're probably just pulling a fast one on you . Whatever you decide for the safety of your little one ask questions! For future reference when enlisting the help of a trainer ( as it is a largely unregulated industry ) have a check list of questions a good example could be - what training methods do you use ? What is your academic background ? What is your experience with X behaviours ? How long have you trained dogs professionally ? Which associations are you part of ? Do you have any special areas of expertise? How often do you refresh your knowledge and education in dog/animal behaviour ?  Do you carry professional liability insurance ? Sorry I don't want to chime in with any wrong advice so I shall not comment but it never hurts to ask questions when employing someone and entrusting them with your fur baby . It may stop you getting ripped off in the future should you ever need to employ help again . I'm sorry this situation has occurred  

LBotz

Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm sorry it took a couple of days for me to get back to everyone. I really appreciate the advice. 

To answer some of your questions, in no particular order, we sent her to one of the Sit Means Sit trainers. I believe they are a national company, but I could be wrong on that. We did two rounds of a Board and Train program, where Coda left us for 10 days, and then we did follow up classes with her and us afterwards. The problem seems to have been in both cases, that she listens really well when the trainer is present, but obviously, not so much when it's just us. 

We live in Central Wyoming, and I would be very grateful for any help or information in where to look to rehome our girl. I am heartbroken to do so, but I think it's best. Thank you all for your support in that. Months back when the aggression began, I tried to talk to some other Bullie owners, and mostly got shamed and guilted for considering the option of rehoming. Now that Coda has actually gone so far as to bite, I just can't trust her anymore, and I don't think that is a good home situation for us or her. 

To put your minds at ease, Coda and our daughter are separated, and when they are together, Coda does have to wear a muzzle. Both for her, and of course, for my toddler. I don't want irreparable damage to be done. 

I feel like the comment about her wanting to dominate is accurate. I'm not an expert of any kind, but looking back, I can see some signs of her asserting her dominance over our toddler that I missed before. Again, thank you all for your help and info. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply!

Harriet_R

They have sit means sit in the UK  ( where I'm from ) I don't know their training programs inside out but I have heard horror stories of them hanging dogs ( lifting a dog off the ground by a collar and leash until the dog submits ) , choke , prong and shock collars used incorrectly ( although I am against these tools I feel they just add to the existing problems ) and other very aversive techniques although this is just what I've heard through word of mouth so do not take this as gospel as every trainer even within the same company can differ with their approach - everyone has their own opinion on how best to train a dog this is why it is best to ask too many questions rather than not enough if there is such a thing as too many questions .... but having had stubborn terriers ( although Ted is my first pedigree/full BT ) I don't find these methods beneficial they just suppress the symptoms without finding the cause or root of the problem or trigger personally I don't like big companies for dog training nor for veterinary needs ( through my own experiences like what happened with my cat at a vets that was within a big chain of vets but that's a story for a different day ) . Suppressing vital stress signals only adds more danger to the problem as the dog is more likely to not offer a warning before a bite or unwanted behaviour may occur.  I'm so sorry you're having to rehome your girl it must be heartbreaking for you I can only imagine how awful it must feel but it's best for both your dog and child as your dog is obviously feeling uncomfortable in this situation especially without a professional who can help show her how to feel more comfortable in the situation . Again my deepest sympathies  

Harriet_R

http://kfor.com/2016/04/05/dog-trainer-charged-with-animal-cruelty-after-using-shock-collar-on-dog-repeatedly/

Djammy

I absolutely agree, @Harriet_R.

This is such a sad story. We don't know both sides and probably not all the details. But judging by what we can read here, it just seems like someone here REALLY tried to find help and many things just went really wrong.

So sorry for everyone involved.

I just tried to do a quick research in order to find a group that looks trustworthy in Wyoming as a contact for possible re-homing. But nothing really promising popped up. I hope that someone in this forum with better knowledge of the state will find this discussion and have more input and ideas on who to turn to.

At least Wyoming is surrounded by several other states. Maybe, if not directly IN Wyoming it's possible to find a rescue group in one of the other states.
This would be a long drive then. But I think finding a good and final new home for the dog would be worth the effort.

In any case I would specifically search for (English) Bull Terrier groups, because I think they are the only ones, who can really help to re-home the dog in a way that does not lead to a subsequent journey through different households. I don't know how much bad experience a dog can bear. And losing her family once will be really tough for her already.

Harriet_R

Thanks @djammy I think we both use a similar approach  ( games and positive reinforcement learning I think this type of training is extra effective with independent thinkers such as terriers or sensitive souls such as english mastiffs but will work on all dogs ) 

It may be possible to ring round a few breeders for some guidelines or extra help ? Worse case scenario they'll tell you to piss off and put the phone down but you don't get unless you ask . If you were in the UK I could of had a huge list for you for breed specific rescues . You could try joining some bull terrier clubs if they have any in the US an example would be I would join the Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire bull terrier club to be put in touch with various owners , breeders and people desperate to adopt a bull terrier I should join up really even though I don't think I will be showing Teddy even though he is so damn gorgeous and he's stuck with me for life unfortunately for him  

LBotz

Thanks again for the advice. I am working to contact some English Bull Terrier rescues in Colorado and California to see if they can help me find a new home for her. I really tried to do right by her. I hope that my attempts to fix the problems didn't make things worse. 

I'll keep all of you posted. Hopefully a good home and a better situation is out there waiting for  our girl. Thanks again for your help

Djammy

That's a very good idea!

I have been thinking a lot about your situation. And while, of course, I feel sorry for everything that happened within your family already, I am also truly sorry for the dog.

In oder to bring the dog into a really good and final new home and minimize the chances of frequent re-homing in the future it is very important that the dog does not just go to any new owner, but into experienced hands during this one re-homing process now. Also again it is very important that the new owner knows what they are dealing with. So, background story is important.

I talked to my husband and he had some additional ideas.
Turning to groups from other states and particularly choosing Bull Terrier groups, as I said before, is a very good idea!
The reason is that the Bull Terrier community is networking a lot, the love for the breed is huge within the community and the most knowledge about the breed is present. Therefore Bull Terriers in need usually are in good hands again pretty quickly.

This is the group of Florida, you can turn to them and start asking around where to turn to and which actions to take in order to find a good new home:
https://www.facebook.com/Bull-Terrier-Rescue-of-Florida-Inc-221615061278615/

Getting the info on Facebook offers the advantage that the search could spread quickly and help to find a new owner quicker. People within the community can share it there. This way the info stays right within the group of people where it belongs, but is still spreading.

This is a Bull Terrier Rescue group based in Florida, as I said. I don’t know, if they can help you directly, but I am very sure that they can help you with advice AND they can post your story on their Facebook page to spread the word and try to help finding a skilled new owner.

Another organization you can turn to is this one:
http://www.btca.com/index.html

They have a part particularly for rescues on their website:
http://bullterrierclubofamericarescue.com/cms_rescue/
http://www.btca.com/rescue.html

There’s also a hotline you can call and talk to someone.

Please stay away from platforms, such as Craigslist or Petfinder etc.!!!!

In addition I can offer you this:

I operate a small blog and Facebook page and have long been thinking about setting up a section for selected rescue groups and rescue cases.
I don’t have a lot of visitors yet, but it basically only needs THE one right hit to find “THE ONE good new owner”. Maybe my sites can help with that.

I can publish your search on my Facebook page and my website.
On my website this would be the start for the mentioned rescue section. In your case I would like to publish some details about the dog (age, gender, name, background …) along with one or a few photos of the dog.

If you want to take the offer, these are my blog and my Facebook page:
www.bullterrierfun.com
https://www.facebook.com/Bullterrierfun

You can contact me here in the forum or use my e-mail address contact@bullterrierfun.com

and we could set up a search within the next few days.

Dorothea

the4thmonkey

I had an EBT from the Mile High Bull Terrier Rescue in Denver.  I think they are good, so much so that I left instructions in my will for Birdie to go there if my friends cannot take her.