Cryptorchidism

Susan

My mini bullterrier is now 4 1/2mnths old. We bought him from a registered breeder. His testes are not in his scrotum sack and the vet said she also cannot feel them in his abdominal cavity. My question is, what would you do if you paid a considerable price for the pup which is now unable to participate in shows and that the breeder should've known at 8 weeks that something was wrong? As I understand is cryptorchidism hereditary and the it is unethical breeding?

chooba

I paid 2K for Chooba, also from a registered breeder His father, nor a few of his little brothers that I met are cryptochid, Chooba is / was. He came with a 2 year health guarantee and I never considered anything other than keeping him even with options. Best decision of my life and my family would be incomplete without him.
My Vet said at 8 weeks it not a sure bet diagnosis, and in researching it its not always the immediate parents that pass the gene, and again its not always hereditary, environmental factors can also come into play, but Steve would be the man to ask about that.

Anyway, even with just a half pocketful of change, my boy could go toe to toe with any other in the show ring, but we keep him out so that others have a chance. B-)



The real question what was the end game when you aquired the puppy.

BulliesofNC

@Susan - It always gets me a little angered when I hear stories of this nature. The reason why I say this is because your breeder should not have sold you the puppy knowing darn well the puppy's development was questionable. The fact is, at 6 weeks old all male puppies are palpated during their health checks. Even if one or both testicles have not dropped all the way into the scrotum they can easily be felt if they are in proper location. At 8 weeks old they should be easily noticeable and in the scrotum where they belong. In the event a Vet cannot feel them while palpating then there is problem with his development. At 4 1/2 months old and Your Vet can't feel them then the chances of them dropping are very slim. As your Vet probably already explained to you, he will require surgery also to correct the problem in order to prevent serious health concerns. When they conduct the surgery they will require castration.

Anyway you slice it, cryptorchidism is a genetic fault passed down to the puppy. Any "proper" health guarantee would cover this hereditary disorder or any other one that proved to be a genetic fault. ALL breeders check their males puppies to ensure their testicles have dropped because they know this is something of importance. I guarantee your breeder was well aware of the problem long before you took your puppy home. Don't get me wrong, any breeder can have a litter that possesses a puppy with cryptorchidism. However, a good breeder will let it be known and dramatically reduce the price of the puppy and sell him as "Pet" quality with the required need for neutering.


People buy Chevy Corvettes too because they want a fast car built for performance with the capabilities of doing 200mph. Now let's face it most owners will never even try and test the cars performance to that level. However, they pride themselves on the fact that their car has the performance they invested into. It would be completely wrong if someone were to purchase one and find out their Corvette could only reach 55mph and took it back to the dealership and had them say "Well, did you buy it to race it because if not, the car will still be a good car."


The reason why I provide this example is because if you purchased a puppy with the expectations that you were paying for a puppy that at least had standard qualities you should provided just that. Your puppy sadly does not meet the standards and would never be allowed to show and should not be used as a breeder even by chance he had the capability to produce.


I would highly suggest you contact your breeder and advise him or her that your puppy was diagnosed with cryptorchidism which is a genetic fault. Regardless if you did or didn't plan on breeding or showing you still received a puppy with genetic fault which greatly minimizes the qualities expected. This health problem also requires surgery which was not something expected from a puppy you thought was of proper health and quality.


Unfortunately there are plenty of breeders that know darn well when a puppy is faulted by congenital disorder and prefer to be silent about and play dumb. They also know if the puppy leaves to go to a new home 99% of the owners will quickly get attached to their puppy and the thought of utilizing their health guarantee by getting a future replacement puppy due to genetic fault will never happen. So what happens is the owner ends up disappointed by the known fact that the breeder ripped them off but they still love their puppy anyway and end up raising the puppy and providing it the medical attention it needs. However, many years later they tend to conduct better research in regard to the breeders when the time comes to purchase a puppy again.

I'm sorry this happened to you and I'm very sorry to hear about your Bullie because I know at this point it would be Very rare that his testicles drop. However, the chances of him needing surgery and to be castrated far out weight the chances of the problem correcting itself.

Please send my love to your breeder. They pulled a fast one on you.

BulliesofNC

No response? I must have written too much.  :-??

Susan

Thank you so much for the advise, it just angers me that breeders can be so unethical! Boyka got neutered today, vet said it was a big op. Also costed 3 x what a standard neutering would have costed. Boyka is sore but is getting alot of TLC.

BulliesofNC

Yes, with any neutering of a dog with cryptorchidism the procedure is far more in depth and often costs a lot more money. Your breeder certainly ripped you off because during the time they had the litter health checked and vaccinated I'm certain the Vet pointed out the health issue with this particular puppy. But as many unethical breeders will do, they will bank on the owner purchasing the puppy without any type of health guarantee and no knowledge on conducting their own analysis on the puppy. Once the new owner has the puppy seen their Vet will also note the genetic health concern during an examination. However, when the owner contacts the breeder the breeder acts shocked and stupid about it but one thing is for sure they are quick to tell you what their health guarantee doesn't cover or remind you they don't have a health guarantee and that all sales are final. They are banking on you already having an attachment to the puppy anyway and any thought of returning him would be slim. Your breeder will continue breeding with these unethical practices because they are rarely reported to AKC (or whichever registry they used) and they are not exploited to the Bull Terrier community for doing unjust to others. Normally the owner will chock it up as a lesson and do nothing to prevent others with the misfortune they went through or try their best to warn others and possibly put a hardship on the breeders reputation thus affecting the future of their breeding program.

Susan

8-X

Susan

I can promise you that I will not leave a stone untouched. I already have my research, photos and letter from the vet to draft the email to the breeder. I will play nice (for now) and try to settle with the breeder, is she is unwilling I will name and shame and contact KUSA (the SA registry). I will keep you updated. This Bullie mom's jaws have locked and she's not letting go!

Susan

Boyka's opp

Rocco

My bully only has one testicle in his scrotum. The other one is just above the scrotum. Depending on how he is sitting or laying on his back you can some times see it. But push next to his base of his penis a bit and it appears quite easily. Im not sure weather to nueter him or not yet. My vet said it should be fine where it is. Its only an issue when its right up in the abdomen.

I thought there was only one when i got him but the health check said there was two and my vet said they could feel 2 so i thought he was still young and they were small and needed to grow a bit more. But that one never fully descended enough to sit in his scrotum. I told the breeder and she said shes only ever had one pup like that and it appeared at 16 months old. My boy is 2 years old now and its still just above his scrotum.

BulliesofNC

It always amazes me to hear some of the things other breeders say in regard to beat around the bush about a known issue. The truth EVERY puppy that leaves the breeders hand should be meeting the health aspects in which the owner expected. If not, they should reduced in price, sold as "Pet Quality", given Limited Registration, and made openly aware to the owner why.

If one or both testicles have not dropped into the scrotum by at least 8 weeks old the chances are very slim that the problem will correct itself. @Rocco as far as your breeder saying they had one take a year and half. I'm just not buying that story.

@Susan - I'm confident your Bullie was palpitated several times by both your Vet and your breeders and I'm confident both Vets concluded with him having cryptorchidism. @Rocco - Your Bullie may not have quite the issue as cryptorchidism but obviously has an undescended testicle. In either case the recommendation would be to neuter the dog to prevent health risks. In both cases neither dog could be shown in a AKC conformation event and both would not be recommended for breeding. This information should have been explained during the sale of the puppy along with letting the owner know future surgery for neutering may very well be warranted. Sadly many breeders prefer to play stupid about known genetic defects and try to either say nothing about the issue or give them false hope knowing the owner will get emotionally attached to the puppy while crossing their fingers that their puppy will develop with the proper standards. As a breeder I must reiterate that it is common practice for all breeders to always have the male puppies checked at 6 weeks old to ensure both testicles are in the proper location. This is part of the health examination on all male puppies anyway. If the event a puppy had an issue the Vet would most definitely bring it to the attention of the breeder. Whether or not they relay that information on to the puppy owner is a different story.

There's actually an abundance of information on this subject available on the internet written by Veterinarians.

@Susan - I really feel bad for you and your poor Bullie who went through a lot with that surgery of his. That's one heck a big scar that's hard to believe was required for neutering unless they had to hunt for his testicles in his stomach. A c-section surgery actually leaves much less of a scar. They must have really needed to do a lot more than just a normal neuter due to his condition.

Rocco

I was hoping to not have to neuter him. For a few reasons. I researched it a fair bit. And probably an unlikely outcome but my partners grandparents took a dog into be neutered and it never woke up again. Also everyone i know that has neutered their dogs. Their dogs get overweight real quick. Plus all the other negative reasons ive read about. But I'll just see what happens in the near future

BulliesofNC

I can completely understand your concerns. I too, would only considered spay and neuter if there was a medical reason that warranted it. What's your Vets opinion in regard to the health risks based on the location of his testicle?

Rocco

The vet ive been taking him to said it should be ok where it is just under the skin and not up in the abdomen. But the vet has now changed owners so i will get a second opinion when he gets his vaccinations next. Week. I also might try the other vet in town just for a 3rd opinion but i generally wont use them as years ago they paralysed my parents/our childhood family bull terriers leg, by cutting a nerve accidently when they were removing a fatty lump in his hip. He was about 13-14 years old when that happened he just made 15, but it was a difficult last year or two for him.

Susan

Quick update- The breeder did call me back and played stupid exactly as you said! I asked her if any of her previous pups had this condition and she said yes one that she knows of , but I can still show him in the neutered category

Susan

In the meantime, Boyka is doing great and helping his mom out in the kitchen

BulliesofNC

@Susan - I hate to keep telling you things that may very well cause further resentment towards your breeder but I'll be damned if I turn a blind eye to BS that a breeder is dishing out to people instead of simply be truthful and breeding with proper ethics, integrity, and pride. With this said I have to tell you that there is no such thing as a "Neutered Class." You cannot show a dog that has been neutered or spayed. All dogs have to be in their natural state and not only are the checked for this but many judges will actually touch a male dog in their privates as a test of their tolerance and temperament. Obviously this would be impossible for a neutered dog. But then again any neutered male or male with cryptorchidism would be immediately disqualified while everyone in attendance would be wondering why the owner would even be so foolish to enter a neutered dog into a conformation show. The whole purpose of a conformation show is to represent the qualities of a dog so breeders can exploit their bloodlines. Judging a dog at a conformation show also allows breeders to know just how close they are with mirroring the breed standards. No Bull Terrier is flawless but every breeder tries their best to emulate the breed standards and the dogs they choose to show represent their bloodlines and the qualities they possess. Showing a neutered dog would be absolutely pointless. The point of Conformation events (Dog Shows) is to define the best breeding stock of pure-bred dogs. Please note, there may very well be some countries and alternate Registries that allow showing spayed and neutered dogs but AKC wouldn't even entertain the idea.