Reaction to Pine Needle Mulch?

Quinnofhearts

Hi all...since I know I've got some coastal bullies and some Floridian bullies in here, thought I might ask.
We are on vacation! Unfortunately this place doesn't let dogs on the beach (booooo!!!) so Quinn isn't getting to have as much fun as she did in South Carolina. (We are in Florida) The backyard of our rental house has no grass and has opted for pine needle much. The big long brown needles. I don't think Quinn likes the pine needles at all as she walks very slowly over them, and when we found one house with grass for a front yard she got very excited, had a little hucklebutt and a poop. :-bd

However, I have noticed that Quinn has been licking her paws more than usual. Thought maybe the pine needles were just putting sap on her toes. I am correcting her when she licks, but can't monitor all the time. But last night I noticed she has developed the dreaded sores-between-the-toes, or interdigital furuncles. They are on 3 of 4 feet. The first one I saw was actually one the outside of one of her front legs, just outside that thumb pad that sits on the back of the leg. I thought maybe it was just a bite, but I think it would take a very skilled mosquito to bite in between her toes. They are not very big so far, but they are enough to be irritating her (licking, walking gingerly).

She is 4 years old. She is on Acana, grain-free. She already receives coconut oil in her breakfast. She is not showing signs of yeast infection (no brown nails/discoloration, no frito feet). She has no other rashes at this time. She has no known food allergies.

So I'm wondering...anyone else had issues with pine needle mulch? Could this just be an environmental change thing that I can expect to go away when we head back home? (We did not have this problem on her first vacation to South Carolina) I will be unable to see a vet until at least Monday, but I am hoping to avoid needless skin scrapings and biopsies and whatever other crazy stuff they can think of. I found one other thread on here that mentions Epsom salt baths and antibiotics, but it seems these are hard to treat. Anyone else had any TRUE success clearing up toes bumps?

Djammy

I don’t know what those bumps look like. And I don’t know how hard the needles are. So I don’t know about the chances of the pine needles puncturing and irritating her feet.

I myself not only once have removed pointy or thorny herbal material that had worked its way into the skin of Djamila’s feet. Nature is aggressive here.

Also there is a very realistic chance of allergies. 

But it may as well be ant bites (chances are even fire ants). This time of the year we have a LOT of them here in the SW - I understand you are in Florida, correct?

Diamila once stuck her nose into an ant hill. The bumps not only looked horrible. They obviously itched and burned terribly.

I took a picture back then, but I am not able to find it. Just google “ant bites dog” and compare the pictures to your dog's bumps.

I get bitten by ants here myself every now and then. When that happens I have a week of itch and burn ahead of me. Did not know such nasty bites back in Germany. They really hurt, swell and fill with pus. 

I read that pine needle mulch allegedly attracts chiggers, ticks and ants. Odd, because I know the oil is actually used as a repellent. I don't know what's true.

If it is ants you may not see the nasty little buggers, because they are gone when your dog gets back inside. 

But when you spend time outside with your dog, you will likely watch her shaking her feet once there are ants sitting on them.

Regardless of it being an allergy or some other kind of itch I’d probably wash her feet after she was outside with a mild disinfectant (Chlorhexidine or s.th. like that, Epsom last soaks are also a good idea > disinfect and heal) and try not to carry those needles inside myself (loosing shoes right at the door etc.).

The heat and sweat is not the best addition to itchy feet. Dogs sweat through their feet, therefore I'd try and get her feet as dry as possible after washing, especially between the toes.

Even better would be to avoid the needles altogether, if that is even an alternative. Also to soothe the itch some Hydrocortisone cream applied really thin on the affected spots could help to heal and soothe the itch.

You can also try, if your dog responds to Benadryl to soothe the itch and keep her from licking by that, if you are comfortable with giving such medicine to her. The dosage is different than for humans. Here's a chart.

If she is used to it, maybe a rawhide in the evening is able to divert her interest in the itch to something else she can chew and lick.

Sadly I do not know of any home remedy that can stop the itch completely.

If you are going to the beach - provided we do not have any dirty tides at the moment - the salt water could also soothe a litte, except if she refuses to walk in, because it stings.

Anyway, I hope I could help a little and that you are still able to enjoy your vacation here, including doggie. Good luck! 

BulliesofNC

Due to the fact that we have Pine trees all around us and more pine needles than I know what to do with, I can honestly say they have no effect on any of my Bull Terriers.

I would have to agree with @Djammy in regard to the possibility of ant or insect bites.

Quinnofhearts

Good to know that you don't seem to have any reactions to pine needles, Steve.

I think after looking at ant bites, we may have some sort of bite problem. I have seen ant hills in the front of the house, red ants from the look of it, and I actually killed a massive red ant in the house. I have only noted one bite on her belly, the rest are all on her feet. They are relatively small, raised and red, then they will scab over, break and bleed (minute amount).

Unfortunately since we are on vacation, I don't have all my resources I would normally have. Didn't bring any bones. And the beaches here aren't dog friendly...would have loved to have her dip her toes in the water to help dry them out/soothe them. I do have some unscented baby wipes... I think I'll give the toes a good wash before we leave (head out early tomorrow morning) and keep an eye on the progress. I would rather her have bites than furuncles, to be honest. Will update when we're back in the GRASS!!

Djammy

The way you describe the bumps reminds me of another condition Fancy once had - man, that dog was plagued! That time she had a fungal infection of her skin which she supposedly had picked up in a corn field. It caused bumps that tore open as soon as she moved too much or was being touched - her skin tore like paper. Very painful for her. I hope it's something different. The vet is going to figure it out.

Hubby also just mentioned, if that is a vacation rental you are staying in, here in Florida chances also are that pesticides are irritating the skin. Many service providers just don't put a sign up when they are done to indicate the treatment.

Either way, usually people do not hope for the weekend to pass quickly, this time I really hope for you guys that Monday comes soon. It's not only about the condition. But being only able to speculate can make things really sour. Been there.

Quinnofhearts

Well we've been back home for a while now. I'm happy to report that Quinn's bumps have gone down or are almost gone, and no new ones have appeared. At home I had to treat the bumps individually based on what I thought they needed. They were all at different stages (one would just be read, one would be scabbed, one would be more raw or open) so basically once they got to a certain point at would treat each one the same. For others that may have this problem, the majority of the bites were pea-size or smaller. The ones on her feet were all smaller than the ones on her thighs/belly. I would watch the bumps until the initial scab would form on the top of the bump -- it was a light colored scab, the gross looking kind when things are trying to heal. When I saw that, I would get a wet paper towel and basically rub the scab off and clean the bump. After it was cleaned, I applied a topical antibiotic. After that was applied, I saw a tremendous improvement in the bump. Redness would disappear, scabbing was healthy. Quinn still needed correcting for licking her paws, but she is not licking nearly as much.

It is very possible that they could have been treating parts of the yard with pesticides, but wouldn't that manifest itself differently? They did honestly look like bites, but I initially suspected the pine needles because we don't have those at home and I thought they might be poking here. Either way, without any kind of definite answer, I think for now I will diagnose this as fire ant bites.

BulliesofNC

I'm so glad to hear Quinn is almost over the skin rash. I too think the cause was due to ants. I have literally hundreds of Pine trees on my property and pine needles all over. heck my Bullies poop in them and then kick their feet when they're done sending the pine needles flying in the air. Those darn fire ants can be nasty though. Bull Terriers know better than to step on the mounds but while in play or at night they can find themselves in a predicament where they either shouldn't have stepped or shouldn't have laid down. I have seen photos of a Bull Terrier who was affected by the probability of pesticide that was sprayed on a yard. However, the dogs belly was entirely red with an even rash throughout. The bumps were fairly large but supposedly didn't scab like a bug bite would.
Who knows what it was, I'm just happy to hear Quinn is over it and probably feeling a lot better!

Quinnofhearts

hahaha excellent mental image of pine needles flying about! ) Quinn "covers" up her mess too, and I have to stand back because she's flung clods of grass on my head before when I'm trying to pick up after her.
Quinn has tucked herself into bed now. I'm happy to have her back in good health. Stresses me out!

Djammy

The statement: “Bull Terriers know better than to step on the mounds…” may be true for most BT’s or at least AFTER they have experienced bites.

I am often surprised how fearless Djamila walks on this planet. She is not easily intimidated by lots of things and probably more the “once bitten, twice shy” type.
She actually once managed to even stick her entire snout into an anthill out of curiosity. Although I tried to remove them as quickly as possible to save her from being bitten that ship had already sailed.
I’ve finally found the photo I took back then. You can see the bites spread all over her face.
Maybe it helps for comparison.

This morning Djamila accidentally stepped into some crawling ants again. Only one of those nasty little buggers climbed her paw, but she immediately started to shake it like crazy.

I do not particularly love bugs and insects, but in the past I didn’t feel much urge to kill them either.
Here in Florida that has changed. Ants and mosquitos (especially those noseeums) now made it #1 on my hate list, because their bites are just pestering humans and animals.

And here it’s not only those isolated anthills. Throughout the summer the ants are basically spread everywhere here in areas that are not treated with pesticides. There’s a wild meadow across the street which would be perfect for Djamila to run and play. But I only go there with her to let her do her business and never encourage her to walk deeply into it, even when the grass has been just mowed by the city.

This area is basically infested with bad surprises: ants, stinging plants and sometimes even snakes.
There are those little plants called Sandbur (chenchrus), for example. They look like morningstars for a reason.

They manage to work their way even into Djamilas heavily callused plantar skin and sometimes even cause it to bleed a little.
She hates the street in front of our house, because it’s spiky like crazy and hurts when she walks on it. Next thing is that meadow where she is walking through one evil surprise after another. Like I said: Nature is well-fortified here.
Sometimes I just let her do her business on the lawn in our yard, although it is treated with pesticides, fertilizer and weed killer, because it’s just less nasty surprises from nature for her.

Quinnofhearts

lol Florida is a wild place when compared to Kentucky, from what I'm hearing and have now experienced. Worst thing she's ever had here is mosquitoes. But she was stung bad on the neck (by a wasp I'm assuming, a HUGE one was flying around her one day) and then she had all these bumps and bites. She didn't like the pine needles anyway, the roads were all rock/sand/oyster shells, and the grass when you can find it isn't even soft. Poor girl was happy to be back home I think.

Those bumps on Djamila's face are about the same size as the ones that were on her feet. She had three bites that weren't on her feet (one in the crease between her belly and back leg, one dangerously close to lady parts, and one on the back of her thigh) and those were all much larger, the aforementioned  pea-sized bumps. The sting on her neck I assumed was a sting because it was larger than all of them and had a very obvious hole (injection site?) in the middle of it. It's possible that the larger bites on her back end were caused by larger ants. Either way, I know they were irritating for her and in our case antibiotic ointment helped clear them.

Djammy

Luckily well informed BT owners, such as you are, are equipped with everything necessary to tackle the torment!

Funny what you say about the grass here. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I first went to Florida. And every time someone is visiting here they bring that up, too. I advise every visitor to only walk on our grass here with their shoes on. The entire lawn feels like padded, it's thick, but the grass is anything but soft. And in this thick pad can wait whatever to sting or bite, especially when the grass is not freshly mowed.

This vacation paradise has a dark side