I wouldn't worry to much, but it is defiantly something I would recommend getting stitched up. Last thing you want is for anything to fall through the hernia (like fatty tissue) that can make this a more serious issue very fast. You should also let your breeders know that he has this, these are typically hereditary and they should be aware of it. Hopefully your vet didn't scare you, but I do recommend to get it fixed. Most often dogs do not "grow out" of it and you don't want the hernia to increase in size.
Ya the vet told me to gently push on them with my fingers 2 or 3 times a day so which it mite correct itself if it is not corrected by the time Kaiser is 6 months old I will have to get surgery and if that happens I'll contact my breeder and see if see will help pay the cost of surgery instead of me returning him which I'm sure she'll have no problem paying have the cost rather then me returning him and getting full refund I'm just worried that they will have to fix him which I don't want even tho I have no interest in breeding him I still don't want him fixed over this at young age cause the fear of it messing with his hormone's
Unless you have a signed contract stating that they will cover this, they probably won't. So don't get your hopes up that they will help you. I would still let them know about the hernia, even if it doesn't need surgery, as they should be aware that one (or both) of their dogs is passing on this issue. You also don't have to get him fixed, I wouldn't suggest breeding him, as he will more then likely pass on this trait.
Boyda is correct in stating most hernias are a congenital defect. Hernias are not uncommon within this breed and will remain a concern along with other hereditary problems within certain bloodlines. Inguinal Hernias are less often seen than Umbilical Hernias. Kaiser is actually the first male BT I've heard that has this condition. Usually Inguinal hernias are found on female dogs. As I'm sure you already know, hernias like this found on puppies are something they are born with. His hernia didn't just pop up. I can guarantee you it was noted during his 6 week checkup and vaccinations and I'm sure your breeder was well aware of the problem. I'm confident you noticed the hernia the first day you got Kaiser. Contacting your breeder is recommended just so he or she is aware that you noticed the medical problem that will require surgery. Your chances of having the breeder compensate you are slim to none especially knowing that sold you the puppy knowing darn well he had a hernia that would require correction. With surgery, I don't think you'll have any further problems if the Vet does a good job stitching the area back up and performing the procedure to both sides of his groin. Your Vet may be buying time by saying you can continue popping the hernia back in his groin in hopes that it will disappear or fix itself but soon enough the hernia will get bigger and surgery will be inevitable. My biggest worry wouldn't be with the hernia or the required surgery but the worry that Kaiser may possess other hereditary problems that may have much larger concerns.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
Well I would think my breeder would rather pay for the surgery rather then me returns the puppy and getting full refund im sure the surgery cost would be a lot cheaper on her part and im not gonna breed he became of it being a genetic thing plus im not a breeder lol but hopefully all works out for the best im just glad Kaiser isn't in any pain
You may have misunderstood me, my worry was with Kaisers future health and the possibilities of other genetic defects he may be prone to. Breeding Kaiser was never mentioned. Good luck with the surgery. Please keep us posted.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
He looks great to me too. Genetics tests specific to the breed may help to ensure he has no other health conditions. Your Vet may have difficulty providing you info without tests other than looking at him. Due to the fact you already have health issues the tests may be well warranted for your decision on keeping him or providing him back to the breeder due to enivinable expenses due to the puppies health. Your Vet saying he looks good is like me saying your car looks good but in reality that doesn't mean it runs good and will last a long time without expenses to keep it going. Only proper tests can make that determination. Just my two cents.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
I found myself in a similar position when I purchased Cleo my female from a breeder here in Michigan. She was diagnosed with urinary incontinence. I had a written letter confirming this and what it would cost me ( approximately 2000.00 $ ) just to try and fix the problem, I also had an exploratory surgery done after I spayed her to try and find the problem. I was told to put her to sleep to recieve a new puppy but absolutely no money was going to be refunded nor would they pay for any of her surgery. I have her on proin which does control the leakage and I will more than likely buy it for the rest of her life.
Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
I think your breeder is going to tell you to stick it as well. And I believe what steve is saying is you could very well endup with other health issues as well he's just trying to forwarn you. I have had other issues with cleo as well such as corns on the pads of her feet which make it painful for her to walk if not filed down regularly. What a deal hey!!!
Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
I think he'll be fine after I fix his hernia I don't think I would have the cold heart to return him after bounding with him for the last few weeks but I'll give yall update's on what go's down
@Rumour - Nobody mentioned the idea of returning a puppy due to a hernia. However, the idea of having the puppy tested for pertinent genetic disorders due to the fact that the breeder failed to test the litter is encouraged to ensure other more serious disorders aren't present. In the event tests show problems with the liver, kidneys, heart, etc than returning the puppy may be a consideration especially if the puppy was purchased with expectations of good health and quality. Many breeders realize that once their puppy leaves their possession with a person who purchased it they would feel mighty guilty for returning it regardless what the reason is. This mantality keeps puppy mills and backyard breeders in business. I think there are many today who want to get what they pay for and the aspect of spending hundreds of dollars on required surgery due to genetic faults wouldn't sit well with owners that expected a healthy puppy. I wouldn't return a puppy due to a hernia either but due to the hernia as well as no documentation on health tests conducted on the puppies or parents I'd take it upon myself to have all genetic tests conducted on the puppy so I knew where his health stands and prepare myself for the future both financially and mentally if problems existed. I have my fingers crossed for Kaiser and I know he's in good hands with an owner that cares for him deeply. I hope I'm not coming off sounding negative by anything I've mentioned but I have a habit of being truthfully blunt. Kaiser was a very underweight puppy at 8 weeks of age, bred with a standard to a Mini, registered through CKC, and now is discovered to have a hernia that most likely will require surgery to correct. Yes, I'd be worried about his future health and genetics as I would with any dog that was going to become a member of the family.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
Sorry, I forgot the who/where Kaiser came from. I was just basing my response on this one thread. It is mentioned twice in this thread though that he thinks the breeder would rather "pay for surgery than have the puppy returned for a refund." IMO Kaiser either comes from a "bad" breeder, who will neither care, nor refund a cent..or he comes from a "good" breeder, who may or may not pay for the surgery. From what I've read, it can be genetic, or can have other causes. Kaiser may have other health issues but most wont show up until he's at least 2.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for him My advice to you in regards to future health problems, is to get a UPC (kidney) test done. I'd probably do it between 6 and 9 months (and every year after that). This is a fairly cheap test, $30-40, and could save you a bundle and a lot of heartbreak in the long run. If he has a serious heart murmur, any decent vet will be able to detect it but milder cases require a colour doppler. I'm not sure where you live, but that cost me over $500 in Ontario. No need for that test without breeding plans. Many dogs have a grade 1 or 2 murmur and show no symptoms ever.
SpudsKaiser, best wishes for Kaiser's good health and troubles being limited to the hernia.
I'm curious what anyone that is breeding would you do in this situation if you got a call like this? I'm very concerned that they might breed the parents again, and won't contact the people that adopted the other puppies from that litter.
Like Steve mentioned above, the hernia would have be noticed prior to have even been placed in a home, if it was not noticed then I'm sure the pup had no vet contact prior to his departure from the litter and the people who breed these dogs have no idea what they are doing or they simply just don't care. I have yet to have a BT litter of my own, but if I was in this situation I would have had it fixed prior to placing him and letting the purchaser know about this issue so he's not side blinded later on. I'm sure any reputable breeder would do the same, unfortunately I'm sure they will breed again and again because these types of breeders do it for a quick buck, even if a purchaser let them know they are selling pups with health issues. Kaiser is in great hands now and I commend his current owner for taking great care of him, I do believe he is in for a rough ride but it will be a very rewarding one. I wish Kaiser good health and a happy life and I'm happy to see this little guy grow up on this forum.
Thanx for the up lifting comments guys and Rumour now that you say it the vet did tell me he had a heart murmur which I hope will go away once he has his surgery because I did a little research and read that with these kind of hernia's that is one of the symptoms
SpudsKaiser, I'm so sorry you have to go through all if this, a heart murmur would have been detected by a vet early on. I'm starting to think that your breeders didn't even take them to a vet for a proper check up, more then likely they just took him to a quick shot clinic that they typically have at pet stores over the weekend to get their shots done cheap or if they actually did take them to a vet they hide all of this info from you. I recall you stating that all of the pups and parents have been health tested, was this something the breeders just stated or did they actually show you proof of the health tests? A basic vet check is not the same as a health test and even with the vet check they would have caught a heart murmur and hernia. I really wish I could give your breeders a piece of my mind, and I really hope you let them know about all of his health issues. Hopefully the murmur is a minor one and he can live a long, happy normal life with you!
A breeding between a Standard BT and a Mini BT, non-AKC registration, underweight puppy, no comments from the breeder about health concerns after being Vet checked, and now we hear he has a heart murmur and a hernia. Yes, I'd say my concerns for other genetic disorders are warranted. You mentioned to me before that the breeder provided you with a 2 year FULL health guarantee. If this is true than I don't see the breeder having any dilemma paying for the surgery to repair the hernia and paying for a Heart Doppler Test to evaluate the condition of his heart. Based on the size and weight of this puppy at 8 weeks of age I'm a bit worried he didn't develop properly. To be honest with you, I'm in disbelief that your breeder provided any sort of written health guarantee. I raised an eye brow a long time ago when you explained the breeding was between a standard BT and a Mini BT. I don't know know of any breeders who would do this. I hope you do call this breeder up and let him or her know your puppy requires medical attention and you'd like to be compensated since the health concerns are all genetic disorders that should have been known and brought to your attention before the puppy was sold to you. My heart goes out to you SpudsKaiser and to your BT because I have a feeling you are well attached to your puppy and he just may require a fat wallet in order to maintain proper health for him.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
That all depends on the breeder. I'd hope they'd adopt the dog to an owner that was well advised as the dogs health conditions and medical needs. This wouldn't be a dog resold for profit but a dog that would be fortunate enough to find a loving home where he'd be cared for appropriately. Maybe if your breeder has some heart he or she will understand your concerns with Kaisers health conditions and provide you back the money you paid for him and allow you to keep him knowing you'll take care of him and spend the money needed for his surgery and possibly heart medications for the rest of his life. In the event Kaiser is recommended to conduct a Heart Doppler Test and found to have a problem he will be in need of meds that he'll be taking forever. You will also be advised to keep his activity level to a minimum. Unfortunately most dogs with heart problems do not live long lives. My hope is that Kaisers murmur is a stage 1 murmur that will gradually go away as he grows vice the beginning of a major problem. You'll know for sure if you conduct the test.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
when the vet told me he had a heart murmur she didn't really tell me if it was a light or heavy case Im guessing it a light case or she would have went in to more detail?
Your Vet probably told you that she would be looked at him again when he's due for his next set of shots. In the event Kaiser still has a murmur at that time he will most likely refer you to a specialist who may conduct an EKG or initiate the Doppler Test. On a positive note it isn't uncommon for young puppies to have stage 1 murmurs. With this said it may not have caused an immediate alarm for your Vet who most likely made note of it for future assessment. Let's hope that the next time he's seen by your Vet that there's no audible murmur heard through his stethoscope. Yes, hernias are said to be a genetic fault. However, this doesn't mean a dog can't develop a hernia the same way a person could. But seeing a hernia develop at only a few weeks of age would be considered hereditary and not something that developed through injury.
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
They won't be able to tell the severity of it without a more detailed test. And yes, hernias are genetic. Hernias have a hereditary basis, because there is a genetic predisposition for delayed closure and this is what causes a hernia due to genetic reasons.
Kaiser had his second shot a week ago and his next check up will be 12/10/13 and she did say something about a test I for got the name but the Doppler test sound about right from what I can remember
Well, see if the murmur is still audible at his appointment. If it is you should have the test conducted. Do you plan on having the hernia repaired in December also?
- Steve Gogulski "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!" www.bulliesofnc.com
Comments
As I'm sure you already know, hernias like this found on puppies are something they are born with. His hernia didn't just pop up. I can guarantee you it was noted during his 6 week checkup and vaccinations and I'm sure your breeder was well aware of the problem. I'm confident you noticed the hernia the first day you got Kaiser.
Contacting your breeder is recommended just so he or she is aware that you noticed the medical problem that will require surgery. Your chances of having the breeder compensate you are slim to none especially knowing that sold you the puppy knowing darn well he had a hernia that would require correction.
With surgery, I don't think you'll have any further problems if the Vet does a good job stitching the area back up and performing the procedure to both sides of his groin. Your Vet may be buying time by saying you can continue popping the hernia back in his groin in hopes that it will disappear or fix itself but soon enough the hernia will get bigger and surgery will be inevitable. My biggest worry wouldn't be with the hernia or the required surgery but the worry that Kaiser may possess other hereditary problems that may have much larger concerns.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Well I would think my breeder would rather pay for the surgery rather then me returns the puppy and getting full refund im sure the surgery cost would be a lot cheaper on her part and im not gonna breed he became of it being a genetic thing plus im not a breeder lol but hopefully all works out for the best im just glad Kaiser isn't in any pain
Good luck with the surgery. Please keep us posted.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Your Vet saying he looks good is like me saying your car looks good but in reality that doesn't mean it runs good and will last a long time without expenses to keep it going. Only proper tests can make that determination.
Just my two cents.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
I think he'll be fine after I fix his hernia I don't think I would have the cold heart to return him after bounding with him for the last few weeks but I'll give yall update's on what go's down
Many breeders realize that once their puppy leaves their possession with a person who purchased it they would feel mighty guilty for returning it regardless what the reason is. This mantality keeps puppy mills and backyard breeders in business. I think there are many today who want to get what they pay for and the aspect of spending hundreds of dollars on required surgery due to genetic faults wouldn't sit well with owners that expected a healthy puppy.
I wouldn't return a puppy due to a hernia either but due to the hernia as well as no documentation on health tests conducted on the puppies or parents I'd take it upon myself to have all genetic tests conducted on the puppy so I knew where his health stands and prepare myself for the future both financially and mentally if problems existed.
I have my fingers crossed for Kaiser and I know he's in good hands with an owner that cares for him deeply. I hope I'm not coming off sounding negative by anything I've mentioned but I have a habit of being truthfully blunt. Kaiser was a very underweight puppy at 8 weeks of age, bred with a standard to a Mini, registered through CKC, and now is discovered to have a hernia that most likely will require surgery to correct. Yes, I'd be worried about his future health and genetics as I would with any dog that was going to become a member of the family.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Kaiser may have other health issues but most wont show up until he's at least 2.
I'll just have too wait and see but I truly think he be great after I fix his hernia
My advice to you in regards to future health problems, is to get a UPC (kidney) test done. I'd probably do it between 6 and 9 months (and every year after that). This is a fairly cheap test, $30-40, and could save you a bundle and a lot of heartbreak in the long run. If he has a serious heart murmur, any decent vet will be able to detect it but milder cases require a colour doppler. I'm not sure where you live, but that cost me over $500 in Ontario. No need for that test without breeding plans. Many dogs have a grade 1 or 2 murmur and show no symptoms ever.
I'm curious what anyone that is breeding would you do in this situation if you got a call like this? I'm very concerned that they might breed the parents again, and won't contact the people that adopted the other puppies from that litter.
Thanx for the up lifting comments guys and Rumour now that you say it the vet did tell me he had a heart murmur which I hope will go away once he has his surgery because I did a little research and read that with these kind of hernia's that is one of the symptoms
You mentioned to me before that the breeder provided you with a 2 year FULL health guarantee. If this is true than I don't see the breeder having any dilemma paying for the surgery to repair the hernia and paying for a Heart Doppler Test to evaluate the condition of his heart. Based on the size and weight of this puppy at 8 weeks of age I'm a bit worried he didn't develop properly. To be honest with you, I'm in disbelief that your breeder provided any sort of written health guarantee. I raised an eye brow a long time ago when you explained the breeding was between a standard BT and a Mini BT. I don't know know of any breeders who would do this.
I hope you do call this breeder up and let him or her know your puppy requires medical attention and you'd like to be compensated since the health concerns are all genetic disorders that should have been known and brought to your attention before the puppy was sold to you.
My heart goes out to you SpudsKaiser and to your BT because I have a feeling you are well attached to your puppy and he just may require a fat wallet in order to maintain proper health for him.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
What's happen to puppies that get sent back to breeder in situations like this I'm just wondering?
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
I just message my breeder and she agreed to help out with the cost
are hernias genetic?
Yes, hernias are said to be a genetic fault. However, this doesn't mean a dog can't develop a hernia the same way a person could. But seeing a hernia develop at only a few weeks of age would be considered hereditary and not something that developed through injury.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Kaiser had his second shot a week ago and his next check up will be 12/10/13 and she did say something about a test I for got the name but the Doppler test sound about right from what I can remember
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Ok I will and I told the vet as soon as possible but she told me that would recommend I wait until he is 6 months of age to do surgery
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Our pup had a slight heart murmur but it did go away on it's own.
Hopefully, the same happens for you and your pup.
It's good to hear that the breeder is willing to assist with the problem they have created.
Please keep us posted, not only with this mess but also Kaiser's health and growth!
He's such a cutie!!!
Thanx Stoeger and I sure will I'll keep everyone updated as the weeks go by
huh?