Why structure is important
I wanted to post here somthing that-not many understand the importance of
which is a dogs structure.
Alot of people frown upon people wanting "show dogs" or dogs who compete in shows
as if they are beauty competitions for "pretty" pamperd dogs.
And i want to stress the importance of the Bull Terriers written standard and WHY it is written the way it was written.
First let me tell you about my 3 year old boy Cesar (picture of him attached)
about 4 months ago he woke up one morning in obvious pain, unable to go up or down stairs, unable to put weight on his front shoulders.
his muscles shook and twitched, he groaned and tried to curl up in a ball on the floor.
i was scared to say the least! it was a weekend and nothing was opened. i observed his movement and detirmined
he was having pain in his back at his shoulders.
a hard lump was formed of fluid built up.
i did what i could to relieve his pain and discomfort, gentle massage, hot and cold packs
doggy asprins and keeping him on a flat even surface (a mattress) in his crate.
he was like that the entire day untill i was able to encourage him to stretch out and he was able to pop his back
back into place-quite litterly you could hear it crack from across the room.
Well, i made sure he took things easy on crate rest for 2 weeks afterward and contacted my vet on monday
figured, he was back to normal and all was well.
Till yesterday-he awoke once again to his back being out-he was in so much pain not moving, unable to lift his head
shrinking to the floor.
called so many vets and none able to deal with back issues, so i contacted my very good freind who is a
collie breeder and veternarian as well as holistic.
we were talking and i asked her if his bone structure could be the cause, he is high in the rear end and has a large "dip" at his neck base
plus his elbows turn out to the side offering less support.
she agreed with me that that is most likly the cause of his back problems and he will probably suffer
from this the rest of his life due to poor body structure.
because his rear is high that is putting alot of pressure on his front shoulders and spine
his elbows turning outward also offer less support then if his front end was correct and straight.
Im looking for Chiropractor for him for when this happens again (and it will)
because, while it may go in easily now-as he ages its only going to be harder and harder to go back into place.
his life of running blissfully and jumping off furniture are over and from now on-he will have to take it easy and i will have to spend my days
doing my best to keep pressure off his spine and shoulders in that area.
I want to go over a few things in the written standard and the importance of them:
"The head should be long, strong and deep right to the end of the muzzle"
A short head often results in an undershot mouth, and a weak thin muzzle often results in a painful inverted canine.
"behind the shoulders there should be no slack or dip at the withers"
beause this creates pressure on the spine and shoulder.
"The forelegs should be perfectly straight and the dog must stand firmly on them"
"the elbows must turn neither in nor out and the pasterns must be strong and upright"
A straighter leg and the smoother movement the dog has taking pressure off the joints over-all.
pasterns that sag or are weak will create problems in the joints and the tendons.
So, when looking to buy a puppy, dont shrugg off a show breeder who breeds dogs of correct structure, because structure is important
and you just never know what you could get with a poor structured dog, hip problems, joint problems, back problems, etc,etc.
the next time Cesars back goes out of place, im probably going to be looking forward to dishing out several hundred dollars in order to get it temporarily fixed
untill the next time it happens-because i CANT fix his structure.
And while his structure may seem slightly "awkward" its just enough to cause problems, he has already had his patellas slip out of place as well as he is quite cow hocked causing his knees to bow outward when he runs.
Treatment for him is
-keep him at a lean healthy weight by portioning his meals.
-keep him from running on hard surfaces and jumping on or off furniture-
-make sure he has a flat even supportive surface to sleep on every night-
-no weighted packs or vests-
-no pulling on his collar-only walk in a harness that tightens around the ribs and not the neck or chest-
-keep him on a diet free of anything that could cause inflammation such as soy, wheat or grains or sugars.
Comments
Judging the structure of any dog can at times be difficult from a picture based on their pose. If the first photo below of Cesar was taken in a good stacked position with his hind legs kicked back it would change the whole perspective of his structure. Obviously seeing each dog in person provides the means for truly judging a dogs structure and conformation. Another important factor for their structure is their natural movements thus the reason it's looked at and judged at shows. Some dogs have terrible and sloppy movement which can often be contributed by their genetic makeup and overall structure.
Having a BT with sound structure and conformation is fantastic and I can understand that many show owners and breeders concentrate all their energy in this area. Unfortunately some of those breeders fall short in other areas where the health risks in regard to liver, kidneys.,etc may be getting overlooked (or accepted). I think it's important to know a lot about both parents as well as the others within 3 or 4 generations. I think many would be surprised by the life span on some of the breeding stock used even on champion titled Bull Terriers.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Agreed about genetic flaws, even a perfectly sound dog can have genetic defects such as weak pattellas, jaw issues and joint problems. but poor structure can make even the healthiest dogs lame at an early age.
And Cesar is in a decent stack in the photo-pulling the dogs hind legs backward is only done by amatuers or those who have a dog with a high rear end-it causes the top line to look smoother and not so high.
bull terriers should be stacked in "box" position
But, if your dog has a good structure-they will stack themselves naturally.
a natural position in which shows off their conformation in the best
way possible. The first photo of Cesar shows him in an uncomfortable
position with his hind legs too far forward. The photo displays him in
an unnatural position which wouldn't be considered "stacked." The front
legs are straight and look fine from the photo but due to the position of his hind legs his weight looks unbalanced with a lean forward look.
I'm no expert in dog handling and stacking any dog. I rely solely on the experience and knowledge from my personal dog handler that's put many dogs in CH. She has been around it her whole life and mother was also a handler and AKC judge. She's taught me a lot and gives great advice. So far we've had great luck at the shows winning B.O.B. at the last 3 shows so I'm pretty confident she got the stack position down pack.
That 2nd photo of Cesar shows him from the front but in more of natural position which appears to have his hind legs kicked back a little more causing a more natural and balanced position. I think Cesar looks great and I'm truly saddened to hear he's having to deal with any form pain or health problem. On a good note, I know how much you care about your Bullies and I know he's in good hands.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
The first photo was not taken at a good angle-he is not being shown directly from the side.
but his legs are in the correct position-the reason it looks awkward is because he has a high rear-stretching his legs out would be more comfortable for him-but its also not correct position to be stacked in here ill show you
here are 2 more for you- while he looks less akward in the first photo-the angle is off,it was not taken directly from the side.
the second photo was taken directly from the side and you can see better his high rear and his out turned elbows in a natural position.
Would this monster Bullie be another good example of a high rear and bad structure?
I see he has been awarded a trophy... It must be B.O.B. (Biggest Of Breed) lol
You may be disappointed in Cesar's overall structure and contribute it to his his current health issue but his structure still exceeds many of the Bull Terriers I see today. His structure may not be perfect but there's a lot more important factors that mean more to people than their looks.
My older female Kolohe (retired) doesn't have the best structure either. As a matter of fact I think Cesar has her whooped. Her father was a very reputable stud from Ellaine's litter within Ann-Dee's. However, her mother was your average Bull Terrier. I thought for sure she'd pull strengths from her sire other than her color but she lacks in many areas and would never measure up to be a show dog. Needless to say, I love the hell out of her and she's as smart as a whip and the most loyal dog you could ever ask for. She's still active really active for her age but she has the initial stages of arthritis in her front legs. Yep, she's not perfect but to me she's my perfect Kolohe!
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
@Stoeger-its hard to tell fully due to the bag of food being in front to see his angulation, but from what I can tell he seems to have a pretty nice topline.
OH, I know he could have far worse structure-it seems he got the worse from both mom and dad.
BUT-that is why he is neuterd, he will never be a show dog,nor a stud, but I will always adore him!
his breeders had encouraged me to breed him when I first got him as a pup, but i wouldn't of, for one his skin allergies are awful, his knees have already poped out of socket several times and now his back.
though his temperament is the best youd ever find.
I just see so many people scuff at breeders who enter dog shows as if breeding good structured dogs was simply to win beauty contests-and for many good breeders, it is not, it is to prevent problems later on in the offspirings life.
Many of the people at shows ARE breeders and do so because they truly love the breed. In many states they mandate that breeders exhibit their dogs. If they don't, they lose their breeders license. Why do you think Danielle participated in shows? She had no choice. It also might have been an influencing factor for her decision to euthenize two of her Bull Terriers since neither could be shown. One in terrible health conditions and the other one being extremely aggressive. They would have been disqualified as soon as they entered the ring and displayed negative temperaments towards other dogs. If you've been to a few shows I'm confident you've seen that happen before. The last show we attended there were many breeders stacking their dogs just to make a major a pick up some free points and a major win and focusing their win on one particular dog of theirs. In other countries exibition is mandated also. In a sense it's a good thing because it brings competetion to breeders who are trying to gain a good reputation for the achievements their dogs receive. In Poland, for example, breeders are only allowed a total of 3 dogs. Obviously they are well focused on their breeding stock that will shown because it will be going up against a lot of competition. Much of the UK is the same way. I would say it plays a huge factor in regard to the average Bull Terrier over there looking far superior to the average Bull Terrier here in this country.
I can't see anyone "scuffing" at breeders at any show when the fact is many of them are breeders themselves and if they're a single dog owner I'm sure they're intelligent enough to realize their dog came from a breeder. It's those individuals that many breeders may scuff at for gloating in the success of their dogs achievements when they had nothing to do with the development of dog - just a bought and show trained dog.
I think I recall a simular conversation like this one in another Forum a few years back where a gentleman that was very successful with his gorgeous Red and White male Bull Terrier felt the need to condemn other breeders that he knew nothing about. This particular individual, although a shared co-owner between 3 people, padded himself on the back for the success in his dogs' achievements when in fact it wasn't him that had had anything to do with his development, structure, and conformation. My hats off to the breeder which made his success possible through years of matched matings with quality BT's in hopes of producing a stunning dog in which they obviously did.
His training and commitment is to be commended because without it the BT wouldn't have earned the success it did. However, a simular comparison would be to buy a race car off someone else that built it to be a top contender. The person that built the car put all the time, energy, experience, and knowledge into getting the car where it needed to be and then selling it. Once the new owner gets the car and wins all the races with it they suddenly feel the need to chastise others as though the success of their wins stemmed from their hard work in the development of the car.
By the way this person who I refer to was the first person to go to Danielle's defense on her facebook when she attempted to ridicule a "North Carolina Bull Terrier Breeder" after I exposed the wicked things she did to her past 2 BT's as well as what she did to Juan. You'd think an individual with his "supposed" knowledge and love for the breed would opens his eyes to those that truly love the breed vice those that are destroying it. It's obvious there are many who prefer to sit back, do nothing, and allows others to become a cancer to the breed they hold close to their heart.
I think there's a much different degree of pride showing up to a dog show with a dog that was bred by you and comes from a bloodline that's your own. A dog that wasn't "purchased" from someone else but a dog you watched being born from the momma that own as well. There's a show coming up in October that I'll most likely enter a female of mine (Bullies of NC's Double Deuce Dakota). She's young and needs the practice. Nobody (but you all now) will even know I'm there. I sit back in the stands and let my handler work her magic with one of our dogs that she works with. I don't get into the politics and stay clear of those looking for a reason to "scuff" at anyone. After the show I'll take her home, love on her, and let her play wildly on our property here that she truly loves.
Here's something I've said before and will always bring up because it's the Gods honest truth - The feeling you get when you pack your dog into a travel crate, travel several miles, allow to prance around a ring, and then get judged by a stranger for just a few short minutes might be wonderful when they hand you a ribbon but trust me when I say it doesn't come close to the overwhelming pride I feel when a BT owner calls me out of the blue years later to simply let me know how much they love their dog and the impact the dog has made in their family and their lives over the years of ownership.
I guess it's just food for thought the next time you ever take notice of many breeders getting scuffed at shows when they enter their dog that they brought into this world and raised from day one. You need to come to North Carolina where the people are friendlier. Nobody gives us a scuffed look and if they do it's behind our backs.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
when I talk about people "scoffing" I mean by people in dog forums, on FB and in blogs.
I often talk with new bully owners or people who contact me looking for a bull terrier puppy thru FB or on the street who assume im a breeder because I own a male and female Bullie. (HA!)
And I often direct them to the BTCA website and dog shows, and many of them frown and make comments such as
"I don't want a snooty SHOW DOG, I want a nice pet" and then I have to explain to them that they would STILL be getting a pet-but when that BBC documentary came out about "show dogs" being unhealthy, it seems it created a lot of beilivers that ANYONE who breeds a dog for the show ring is only breeding unhealthy, dogs for profit.
and ive always been one to defend that way of thinking, while yes, not EVERY breeder who shows is a good breeder, and not every breeder who doesn't show is a bad one, but a breeder who understands the importance of good structure obviously cares about there dogs
I want nothing more then to be a good breeder someday, and over the past several years I have been doing as much research and brain picking as I can, and I have learned so much!
I have had Peter Moyle of Zaracle and Steve of Draydur take me under their wings so to speak, and teach me a lot, mostly about health and structure-my biggest focal points at the moment.
Social media "scoffing" I can understand because I too see all sorts of nastyness stirred up on social networks where one individual finds it appropriate to bash a breeder in attempt to distort people into thinking they are better than the person that they're critizing. Take notice of ones initiating the slander and critizism on other breeders that they don't even know because many of them are coming from the breeder referral group you provide to people looking to find a good breeder.
I do just the opposite when it comes to refering people to good breeders. What I mean by that is the last thing I'd do is refer someone to breeders solely because they have their name on a club roster. I think Leslie could school you a little on her experiences with one of the more popular breeders within your referral group. I guess to me I feel it's more important to provide people with authentic referrals from breeders that I actually know, visited their homes, and spent time with their dogs. It's a little too easy for someone to sign their name on a club roster and piggy back off the clubs reputation for having many current and past members achieve recognition for their show wins. Ask Leslie about how her breeder committed to their (1 year)puppy health guarantee. You may find it completely contradicting the "written" ethics of the CLUB. You may wish to rethink your breeder referral suggestions unless you've visited the hundreds of members listed on it.
One day when you do become a breeder you will gain most of your knowledge about other breeders from the people that come visit you and your bullies as well as the people that contact you by phone and email telling you their stories whether it be good or bad. If you become a breeder with the heart to not only raise and breed Bull Terriers but take in rescues in your area that need help you may also be shocked when you learn where some of them came from. You may able to cast a better opinion about individual breeders based on the experiences you've had with unbias personnel and their true experiences. It will be at that time you could exploit the phony's with authentic critism and slander or you could remain professional by keeping your distance from them without starting a fight. During the times in the past when I've contacted breeders letting them know I had a rendered dog that came from one of their litters I've noticed it often doesn't turn out the way it should have. Often I'll soon see posts about "me" with them slandering my kennel name.
You probably already noticed my patience for phony's and people who's heart isn't in the right place. Once I found out Danielle was a true cancer I banned her from this Forum because I don't wish for it to be some of those other forums you have familiarity with where it seems that's the only kind of thread everybody wants to get involved in and put their two cents in on.
Hopefully the breeders who are mentoring you under their wing are explaining some of these things to you. It's sad when you love the breed so much but find yourself in controversy when you stick up for them for the future welfare of the breed. It's sad there are so many that prefer to "Scoff" at breeders without even knowing them. On a good note I think most people that have conducted proper research can read through people pretty well and see who's truly dedicated to the breed. It's these breeders that have no need to engage in the fights when their kennel name is being used in a unwarranted fashion from individuals that may simply be jealous when they realize the other breeder may be gaining more of positive reputation than they wish to admit. Hopefully your mentors that have taken you under their wing have explained some of this to you.
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com
Yes, I have been finding out the sad underworld of breeders.
Steve of Draydur and I were talking about sending people to the BTCA referral list-but as I told him, finding a good breeder thru the internet is lie finding a needle in a haystack, and a novice is unfortunately going to unfortunately be bombarded with websites from BYB's and puppymills-atleast by going to the shows and the BTCA websites they have a little bit better chance of getting a dog whos parents have atleast been health tested as oppose to going to the dreaded "puppyfind.com"
I too a lot of crap for buying Chimera from Kenandai because he has been out of the show world for some time after having his son (also because he is not on the BTCA list) but, i asked the questions, made sure to get proof of honest answers-the only reason i bought Chimera was because i was satisfied with what i seen and his charcter as a person.
Had i gone to the same breeder Leslie did (and i almost did but backed out at the last minute) i would of gotten a lesser quality dog, for more money
you know the funny art about that is-several years ago i posted their website (Aegean) asking for opinions about them (seeing as how they were on the referral list) and had many tell me they were not good breeders, and to find good breeders in my area off the referral list-till i pointed out they WERE in my area from the referral list- they had nothing more to say to me after that
OOPS!
Have you had a look at that referal list lately? Do you realize just how many breeders they list? Exact number = 111. That's more Bull Terrier Breeders than you'll probably see on "puppyfind." What's funny is many of the breeders listed on the page refuse to call themselves breeders because they think it's a "bad" word. They might call themselves hobby breeders and boast about only having 1 litter every year or two. Well that's kind of obvious if they only have 1 or 2 females. That's no different than saying I breed my female every other year. Of course that don't produce many litter if they only own one or two females. Our breeding concept is the same. However, between the 4 of us we own 9 breeding females. We additionally advertise for 4 other breeders and from time to time advertise for private owners that came to us for stud service. The hobby breeders seem to be the ones that are quick to say "They're a puppy mill and always have litters of puppies" when the truth is far from it. It's very apparent we have a lot of eyes on us and beleive me there are many that are wanting so bad to throw dirt on us but they're having a hard time finding any reasons. They have all "friended" us on facebook but I'm not too confident we are actually Friends.
@Leslie - Your "Favorite Kennel" has no clue had lucky they were for 2 of their Bullies to go to a home like yours where the medical condition on one would be treated for the rest of her life with proper love and care and the other one trained to the point where his aggressive temperament could be worked out of him and turned into a manageable Bull Terrier that anyone would be proud of. :-bd
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
www.bulliesofnc.com